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Post by fram773 on Jul 17, 2015 11:40:14 GMT -6
Too many people that are simply ignorant, immediately discount a higher priced soap because it is more expensive. They may look at the price per oz or the sticker price and go with the cheap stuff. As an example, consider these two creams: Bluebeards Revenge at ~$10 for 100ml and Castle Forbes at ~$27. BR claims to last 50 shaves while CF claims to last 5-6 months. I don't doubt CF lasts that long in daily use; as CF is the consistency of Catie's Bubbles (a soft soap) and CB at 8oz, lasted 133 shaves in my testing. CF requires less loading time than CB and hence less product. If you do the math, BR will come out to the cost of $.20 per use, while CF will come out to $.14 per use. If you use the American market version of Bluebeard's Revenge, you will be paying a whopping $.36 per use. That is more than Martin de Candre! By being a cheapskate, you will be paying more for an inferior product that smells like hairspray. Now I am far from finished with my testing, but you can get a general idea about the true price of soap here: theoriginalsafetytoo.com/thread/1718/soap-longevity-measured-testedI have tested a soft soap (croap), a regular soap, and a triple milled soap, so even if I haven't tested a particular soap you can get a pretty good idea by how long a soap will last by its density.
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Jul 17, 2015 22:42:18 GMT -6
This observation is spot on. In my experience, Proraso is one of the least efficient products in the market, and will definitely cost a user more down the road than even the most expensive soaps or creams.
Also, I think most people will use soaps more conservatively than creams because they are harder to load. Actually, that is a good thing, because you can load a brush more precisely.
Last, brush sizes play an important role. With a 21-24mm brush, I typically end up with very little excess lather (ie wasted product) than with a larger brush. I have a 36mm one, and in order to lather properly with it, I need to create at least three times more lather than actually needed, because inevitably, a lot of it will end up inside the knot instead of near the tips only.
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Post by fram773 on Jul 18, 2015 15:43:33 GMT -6
You would think it would be common sense that a soap like Proraso wouldn't last anywhere near as long as a smaller harder soap, since they are selling you mostly water, but apparently it is still very common.
Another point to make is that boar brushes are just horrible in the amount of product they use-- you will pay for them in the long run.I have not done any formal calculations but would not be surprised if they used twice the amount to produce the same lather as a comparable badger or synthetic. Thus a cheapskate, wanting to save money on a brush, will also get screwed in the end.
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Jul 23, 2015 5:44:20 GMT -6
A small (22mm max) synthetic brush and a high powered, highly efficient soap seem to be the secret to success. I've been using a .99€ Frank Shaving synthetic brushlet for several weeks now, along with Meißner Tremonia soaps. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say the soap will last until the end of the year.
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RocketMan
Gem Star
RazorAddict
Welcome To The Sharp Side!
Posts: 4,167
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Post by RocketMan on Jul 24, 2015 0:13:27 GMT -6
There are important ideas here. I would tend to agree with both the bang for your buck analysis of soap quality and the tendency of boar to require more soap. There are limits to quality also however, and there may be a point where you begin buying prestige over practicality.
BeBerlin. A cheap synthetic?? I'm aghast! : )
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Jul 24, 2015 2:17:30 GMT -6
Well, Wayne, there is a time and place for everything. In my opinion, everyone who posts on the internet has an exhibitionist streak to some degree. There are contributing factors, such as inferiority complexes, or simple greed. But that's OK, because deep in our hearts, we all know that.
When I started with cut-throat shaving, I was in it for three factors: novelty, efficiency, and coolness. I spent years buying stuff. Not quite blindly, but borderline OCD. I never calculated what I spent exactly, but I am sure I could have paid a barber and butler for the rest of my life, easily.
So, each foray into a different area of cut-throat shaving resulted in a heap (literally, I'm afraid) of excess kit. I kept most of the razors, which was pretty damn clever, because each of them has seen a 100-800% price increase since (except for one Puma which shall not be named). In the ensuing years, I sold almost everything else. Now, greed has never been a driver for me, so I picked the people to whom I sold stuff carefully, and they almost always ended up paying what I paid, not the marked up price.
There are, by now, few items I actually kept. The razors, yes, but their numbers are dwindling, too. Of the SEs I bought, I only kept the lather catchers in very good or excellent condition (five), and the usual GEM suspects (OCMM, FW, CP). I kept a few dozen SE blades from Sweden because they're hard to get as NOS, and I like giving them away to people I feel will cherish them.
Where was I? Ah, yes, brushes. See, I am German (mostly), and we happen to have a few rather nice brush makers in this country. Make as in "make", not "glue a $2 Chinese import knot into a piece of wood or worse". And we have (one of) Europe's best stocked shaving shop in Berlin, near which I lived for several years. Splendid, really. I did what, in my not so humble opinion, more people should do, I actually spoke to the manufacturers and retailers, getting a feel for their take on brushes. It quickly became apparent that there are very few, yet distinct, types of brushes. So we had grey badger, silvertip badger, fanboy badger, and third world nonsense nobody in their right mind wanted to use (horse, boar, plastic). Since then, synthetics have become quite usable, but that was then, ie 10 years ago.
So, I overspent (a little) on brushes. Including, of course, fanboy badgers. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Anyone who buys a badger brush with more than one adjective is an idiot (and I am speaking from first hand experience). Super duper Manchrurian ACRONYM RARE!!!!! badger is *drumroll* a silvertip badger. End of story. Well not quite the end, because you pay for every single letter of these marketing terms.
I ended up with six Thäter brushes, and I only use two of them, really. A 26mm two band fan, and a custom made two band 22m travel brush. I should sell the rest, but one is rarer than rare, and the others were gifts.
Then a friend came back from China where his entrepreneurial Chinese wife had done some research into Chinese shaving brushes. A few lessons to be learned. The average silvertip badger knot available from retailers outside China has a buying price of less than $5, more like $2 if you speak the language, like haggling, and buy bulk. Yes, I am talking about those fancily named knots "artisan" brush makers like to use and which typically retail for something like $30-60. If dealing drugs or guns seems too risky, badger knots have a similar profit margin.
Said friend came back with a truckload of indigenous brushes, including that tiny Frank Shaving synthetic. I must admit that I threw it into a box labeled "for people I don't particularly care about, but who are in financial need and need shaving equipment". About a year later, I got horrendously bored, and tried it.
It worked. It worked very well. Very well, indeed. Now, I know that some people wax lyrical about the alleged differences between high mountain whiter than the Aryan resistance badgers vs high mountain whiter than snow badgers. Bollocks. This little thing just works, and it produces lather more consistently and efficiently than any badger brush I have tried so far (hint: most). I borrowed one of the new Simpson synthetics, and it works just as well, only at 60 times the cost.
Lesson learned: If you used to dismiss synthetics a few years ago, you were quite right. But you might want to revisit them now. Especially the cheap ones from China. They can be had from Alibaba (and probably eBay) for something like $5-10, and they will give most, if not all, badger brushes a run for their money.
That said, they are soulless, classless, and styleless, which is why I still use my badger brushes. But that's mostly stubbornness.
I hope this helps clear things up a little.
Have a great weekend, gentlemen, Robin
PS I have not the slightest idea what my FS synthetic is called. It's small, black, incredibly ugly, has a cheap feel - maybe that will help narrow a search down.
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