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Post by johna2231 on Feb 4, 2012 23:17:07 GMT -6
Gentlemen,
I'm a FNG (funny new guy) when it comes to SE shaving and have questions. I had a decent shave (very comfortable at least) with my Heavy Flat Top SE, which was my first experience with a SE razor.
I won two 1912 Gem SE razors off of the 'bay and tried the one out that I think is a Gem Junior tonight with the same blade (3rd shave with this same blade) and it was really rough with lots of tugging. The best way I can describe it from my past experience is that it compared to how a straight does when it needs stropping or a touch up, or how a DE does when it's been used too many times and is ready to go in the blade safe.
The most likely culprit, I'm guessing, is the Walgreens/Gem blades I'm using. I'm looking forward to trying out a Ted Pella that a member on here has kindly offered to PIF me. I'll pitch this particular blade just in case it's a dud, and start with a fresh one tomorrow.
Just FYI, my prep is the same as always: piping hot water with good cream (TOBS or Trumpers, or Mama Bear Soap) with hot water and relather between passes. I don't think this is part of the problem.
As far as angle, I'm holding it close to flat and just lifting up the back of the razor until I feel the edge of the blade contact my face. And, I'm experimenting around with different angles as I go trying to get the feel.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
John
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Feb 5, 2012 1:20:24 GMT -6
Wow, where do I go from here!? Understand, the things I write are not to insult but to try to get to the heart of the problem and to help you with your goal.
What is your shaving experience with any blade? I don't know. How basic do I need to go? Again, I don't know. So we'll start at basics.
Great lather and technique, gotta have that. No pressure. The Jr is a mid aggressive razor. Is it too much? Should you take more time with the heavy flat top before moving on? I think I would. Tiny steps. The HFT is more aggressive than a comparable beginners DE razor. There is no really mild really mild beginners SE razor. Certainly nothing that would compare to a Superspeed or a Tech. I consider the Featherweight and HFT to be maybe a 3-4 setting on a Slim. The Jr is more. (Sorry guys, but I have no other comparison other than the DE reference- I know that DE is a no-no).
The Walgreens SS blade should be close to the Ted Pella blade. I can get 18 shaves from one (Ted Pella). I didn't see how many were on yours. It's something to check. I can easily get 7 shaves from a pharmacy blade.
How do you know it's a GEM Jr? If it's a 1912 that's a very aggressive razor, or it can be. But even the Jr is a large step up in aggressiveness over the HFT for a noob. There is at least one gent who reported his Jr as not giving the shave I reported in my review. Maybe you have one of those?
Are you holding the razor firmly so that it doesn't chatter, yet is held firmly w/o pressure against the skin?
I don't know what lifting the back of the razor means. Do you mean holding the head against the skin (parallel) and dropping the handle a hair for a downward stroke? If so, that would get you close. The brain auto pilot will fine tune it.
You should easily hear a Jr as it does it's job. I don't even pay attention to the angle anymore. That's on auto pilot by the brain. I go by feel and sound (I think that's what happens anyway). So other than the above paragraph I really can't help with angle. With a bit of experience you'll just "feel" the right angle and it'll happen. No matter what I shave with it all happens that way.
You might spend some more time with the HFT to build a foundation before moving on. IMO a good move from the HFT to a 1912 design would be the Damaskeene and not jumping directly from an HFT to a Jr. I learned to blade shave with a Featherweight and spent at least a month with that razor before moving to anything else. It was much longer before I got Feather blades for my grandads Valet VC4 which was more aggressive and the blade being pretty darn sharp too. The Featherweight or HFT (similar heads) are fairly mild for SE razors, but a few notches above a mild DE in aggressiveness. The Jr. even more so. I wonder if you're ready for it? I can't answer that, only you can.
You just might be biting off too much too soon w/o building your foundation. Relax, take your time, and you'll get there. None of us got there rapidly. It was all done by baby steps. It just appears we got there immediately.
I hope that helps, if you have more info for us it could help. (Yeah, I know it's difficult when you have problem to supply what we need, but maybe you can bounce off of what I wrote.)
Hey, I gotta get some sleep.
'later.
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RocketMan
Gem Star
RazorAddict
Welcome To The Sharp Side!
Posts: 4,167
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Post by RocketMan on Feb 5, 2012 2:30:10 GMT -6
I would be curious to hear how it goes after dropping in a new blade.
I don't get anywhere near the shaves from a blade that ShadowsDad gets. I personally find the drug store brands I have tried don't do well for me and tend to tug - particularly in a 1912 which does present the blade rather aggressively. I really like the Pellas - but I really don't get much after 4 uses and would be happy to give em a toss after three. I guess the saying Your Mileage May Vary applies big time to shaving.
Experience is definately useful with some of these razors - and sharp blades are a must.
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Post by wchnu on Feb 5, 2012 3:18:55 GMT -6
Sounds like a blade issue to me. How do you care for the blade after/between shaves. I dry all my blades after the shave, along with the razor. By that I mean I take the blade out dry the razor then dry the blade before putting it back together for storage. Even with the Gem stainless stuff.
Try a new blade. Pay attention to angle pressure and such. That should help out.
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Possum
Master Shaver
Cast Iron Marsupial
Look out you "Fuzzy" wabbit!
Posts: 1,274
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Post by Possum on Feb 5, 2012 4:18:11 GMT -6
I agree with the others that this is a blade problem. I use the Pellas and have found them to be much sharper and easier to get a great shave from than the drug store brands.
Must admit that I have had a few "duds" with the Pella blades but that usual comes out with the first shave with the blade and with the first pass. To me the blade being a dud is obvious right away. All I do is stop the shave and change in a new blade to replace the dud.
Another thing that helps me get longer blade life and better shaves is handstropping the blade between shaves. The following link is to a YouTube video by the founder of the original TOS site Dave Irving. Take a look see and give it a try. May help solve your problem. By the way I hand strop even my DE blades.
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Post by HoosierTrooper on Feb 5, 2012 8:15:19 GMT -6
I can't tell any difference between the blades from Walgreens and the ones from the medical supply sites. I can, however, tell a difference between them and the carbon steel blades, which I prefer.
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Post by Alan on Feb 5, 2012 8:26:34 GMT -6
I too agree it's a blade issue. Like Possum said, if you got a dud, pop a new one in. Not too long ago Fuzzy sent me a sample of the different types of SE blades available. I did a test of each and came to the following conclusions. Bear in mind, this is what works for me. As far as drug store blades go, it's hit or miss with me. Sometimes they are smooth, sometimes they tug like crazy. The Pella's seem a mite smoother than drug store, but like Tom, my favorites are the carbon steel. They just seem to work better for me.
Alan
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Post by johna2231 on Feb 6, 2012 16:21:53 GMT -6
Gentlemen,
First off, I can't thank you enough for all of your efforts here in trying to help me out. I tend to jump around from one razor to the next with other styles of razors, but perhaps with the SEs being more aggressive as a whole, it would be best to focus on one razor and learn to use it first.
How do I know it's a Jr.? That's a good question! I thought that's how it was described in the Ebay ad, but who knows? I'll take some photos and upload 'em so hopefully you guys might be able to tell me what it is. My other SE has an almost identical head but with a much more relaxed angle.
SD, I may have not have been holding the razor firmly enough to keep it from skipping since I was focusing on a light touch. I'll watch that more closely, thank you!
"I don't know what lifting the back of the razor means. Do you mean holding the head against the skin (parallel) and dropping the handle a hair for a downward stroke?" Yes Sir! That's what I was trying to describe.
This morning I tried my 3rd SE which I'll describe as saying "Gem" on the back and inside the head, and has "1912" where the handle screws in. It's the one with a more relaxed angle, and it has a beautiful handle that's heavy, has 6 sides and a intricate pattern of almost celtic looking "knots" on it, for want of a better description.
In any event, this shave set me on my ear!! It was very close and super comfortable. I changed blades just in case it was a dud, (as you folks suggested) and went really slow with control, but a super light touch and it went really well. Now I'm seeing what you guys are all fired up about!
wchnu, I remove the blade, run it under hot water and brush it WITH the edge if there's stubborn lather and whiskers stuck on with a finger nail brush, then pat the sides with a dry towel before setting it aside to dry. Then the same with the razor and I've been leaving the head open when not holding a blade. Is that all OK?
Possum, I'm gonna read that link on handstropping. I've never even heard of that. Kewl!
Trooper and Alan, I'm gonna have to try out the stainless and the carbons and just see what works for me. I wish someone sold a SE sampler. Not aware of anyone who does though.
In closing, thanks again for all the help and advice. This morning's shave was a true eye opener! Wow! I'm off to the 'bay, I gotta buy more SEs!!! grin.
John
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Post by wchnu on Feb 6, 2012 16:32:56 GMT -6
Yes Sir that is a good way to store. The Jr. Should say it on tge razor.
I am goona step out here and guess you might have a lather catcher style JR. I have a few they are wonderful. We will await the pics.
Glad you liked the shave with the 1912. Bully!!!! For you on a great shave.
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Feb 6, 2012 16:51:26 GMT -6
John, do you see your razor in this rogues gallery? www.theoriginalsafetytoo.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=102It sounds like a 1912, and that can be quite aggressive. But let me go back a bit. What level of experience are you? I don't need the answer. If you're new to blade shaving it's quite important to stay with everything being the same for awhile. If you jump around you'll have no idea what is going on. It's scientific method. If you change all of the variables in an experiment, for every experiment, all you'll get is junk data. You'll have absolutely no idea if it's the blade, the lather, the razor, your technique, etc. If you slow down you'll actually get to where to want to be faster. At least with shaving as a noob. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you'll know what variable caused what effect when you change many variables in a shave, but for now, slow down. Stay with everything the same for awhile. Concentrate on technique, that means lather especially. You won't get a great shave with lousy lather. I'm not saying yours is bad, only to concentrate on it so that you can get fantastic lather every time. Concentrate on the basics of technique and you'll get to where you want to be. Then you can start to experiment with razors and blades, etc. Does that make sense?
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Post by johna2231 on Feb 7, 2012 11:37:34 GMT -6
SD,
I'm not sure if I see the razor in question in the rogues gallery or not. I took pics this morning and will try and attach them to this post.
My experience: been shaving with straights about 5 months, DEs about 6 month, SEs about 2 minutes...grin.
I had another great shave this morning with the "razor in question" that has the pretty handle. I think it's on the right in the photos I'll try to upload. Used Martin DeCandre soap with hot water prep for a nice three pass and finished up with Thayers Which Hazel and Master Bay Rum. Much better!
I tried the original blade but even after hand stropping it wasn't good. So maybe it was a dud. The second blade I tried (same one I had good results with yesterday) was nice and shaved well.
I picked up a Damaskeene last night on the 'bay! I'll follow your advice and stick with the one SE that I'm having good luck with until the D gets here. Then I'm gonna have to try it!
Your advice makes all kinda sense. Thanks again for taking the time and helping me along (to everyone!).
John
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Post by johna2231 on Feb 7, 2012 11:54:05 GMT -6
OK Guys,
I hope I didn't screw things up. I couldn't figure how to post a pic here so I put 5 pics in the test area.
John
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Feb 7, 2012 16:36:07 GMT -6
That's the way to post pics.
I find the easiest way is to just copy the "IMG" link and paste it where you want it to show in the text. But there is the "insert image" icon seen above; that also works.
BTW, If you ever decide to sell that Damaskeene set I'm on record as wanting first refusal.
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Post by johna2231 on Feb 7, 2012 18:52:27 GMT -6
Ok Brian,
If I end up hating that Damaskeene wanna be razor you'll be the first one I sell it to. Fair enough? LOL. Did you get a chance to compare my pics and see what the heck I'm shaving with?
Sorry, I'm computer challenged. I don't see the "insert image" icon you speak of.
John
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Feb 7, 2012 20:41:13 GMT -6
Above the row of smilies there is a row of "things" that begins with "Tube". The 4th one over looks something like a picture. Put your cursor over it and do nothing other than leave it there. "Insert Image" should be shown in the area. That's what I was talking about.
It's easier though to just copy the "IMG" link and paste it.
I'm leaving the identification up to Tom. I'm not strong in it.
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