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Post by mjclark on Jan 4, 2014 9:28:55 GMT -6
What a shame! I absolutely adore this razor, for looks, and I'm always keeping my eye open for one to add to my collection. It appears to have very much the same shape and curve as the Personna ... which, yes, demands a very specific angle which is nothing like Schick. Try is again in a few days. Often your brain rewires from the experience and your sense memory adjusts to pick it up more intuitively later. Yeah thanks! I'm a bit shocked as this is the first injector I haven't enjoyed. I'm so disgruntled that I've put it up fot trade, but if nobody bites then like you say, I'll come back to it...
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norfolkdick
Master Shaver
Captain of the Razor Blades
Posts: 1,601
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Post by norfolkdick on Jan 4, 2014 11:24:22 GMT -6
Greetings
You have joined the ranks of the many who find the Pal Adjustable a 'difficult' razor, I am a member of that same club. Mine is machined ok and is not one of those ground on the skew but I find it so angle sensitive, the difference between cutting and not cutting at all is very little.
I think those users that get on well with them (and there are some) use them nearly every day so you adapt to the more precise angle requirements. I am certainly less then enamoured with mine, which is why I so rarely use it.
Regards Dick
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Post by mjclark on Jan 4, 2014 12:02:48 GMT -6
Greetings You have joined the ranks of the many who find the Pal Adjustable a 'difficult' razor, I am a member of that same club. Mine is machined ok and is not one of those ground on the skew but I find it so angle sensitive, the difference between cutting and not cutting at all is very little. I think those users that get on well with them (and there are some) use them nearly every day so you adapt to the more precise angle requirements. I am certainly less then enamoured with mine, which is why I so rarely use it. Regards Dick Thanks - that's encouraging. If nobody takes me up on the trade offer, I'll try a week of the Star Trek PAL to see if I can unlock its magic
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Post by PJGH on Jan 5, 2014 12:48:39 GMT -6
Nobody is interested Shave! Shave! Shave! You'll catch that angle.
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Post by mjclark on Jan 5, 2014 12:53:42 GMT -6
But look. This youth in the Allegheny Ludlum Steel ad isn't having any problems. The 1962 ad makes the point that these razors are guaranteed for life, so maybe we can still all get our money back
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Post by mjclark on Jan 22, 2014 1:28:37 GMT -6
Encouraged by PJGH's calls for perseverance and my recent awesome Micromatic shaves, I returned to the Star Trek PAL this morning Unlike the Schicks and the Injectomatic, the correct angle isn't intuitive at all. I found it at last by listening for feedback and it turns out that you have to let the balance of the heavy stainless handle pull the head back and away from the face to get a good shave. The other big thing is that, unlike the Schick adjustable, the different settings really do make a difference to how it shaves, and it's got some proper aggression! Set between "L" and "3" the PAL shaves like my I and L types and even the mildest setting is effective - also the increase in aggression is notable as the dial's cranked up. Set between "3" and "H" however, it starts to go beyond my Canadian E, and H is really fierce. I had a lot of fun playing with the settings for the ATG pass and it really is very responsive. So I'm almost sold on the Star Trek PAL but unfortunately it still gave quite a patchy and harsh result that just doesn't match up to the Injectomatic or the Schicks. I wonder if it would do better with a carbon steel blade. In any case, it's rewarded a second visit so I might come back to it again and see if I can get further imorovements. This razor just looks so good and playing with that responsive dial is real fun!
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Post by PJGH on Jan 22, 2014 8:04:11 GMT -6
Damn it! So you won't be throwing it my way in a fit of rage? Good going! It is a great looker and if it's an enjoyable journey getting to know it, all the better. Keep it up. I'll give my Personna another go in light of what you've found here - I think they are very similar, if not the same base (and no adjustable on the Personna).
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Post by mjclark on Jan 22, 2014 10:07:03 GMT -6
Damn it! So you won't be throwing it my way in a fit of rage? Good going! It is a great looker and if it's an enjoyable journey getting to know it, all the better. Keep it up. I'll give my Personna another go in light of what you've found here - I think they are very similar, if not the same base (and no adjustable on the Personna). Yeah - I found the effective angle with the PAL adjustable by starting with the handle parallel to my face, then lifting the handle upwards to make a more and more acute cutting angle until the feedback told me I'd got it - this is exactly the opposite of how I'd find the angle with any other razor. Once the angle is found, to maintain it I had to let the razor fall back into my hand under its own weight. This seems deliberate and it seems to be designed to do this naturally. Although this turns out to be a very good bit of design once it's understood, I'm mystified as to why the geometry should be so different from the previous (and completely excellent) PAL Injectomatic, which shaves just like the Schicks so that it's very easy to crossover to. I'm keen to hear how the Personna performs - it looks very similar but I think Coolbus found it to be too mild. When was the Personna made? Maybe it was an attempt to redesign a new and improved Star Trek PAL after the problems with the adjustable. Also if you'd like to try the PAL adjustable, maybe I could do a week long swap for the Personna with you?
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Post by PJGH on Jan 22, 2014 10:11:47 GMT -6
I have tried the Personna, but it was in and amongst the other injectors when I was not having a great time with them. I think I found the Personna the better performer until I tried the Dial. I'll get another shave in with it tomorrow.
Yeah, swaps for a week or so would be good ... I can drop in a Wilkinson Sword, too, if you're still interested. We can work out the detail offline.
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Post by mjclark on Jan 22, 2014 11:32:34 GMT -6
I have tried the Personna, but it was in and amongst the other injectors when I was not having a great time with them. I think I found the Personna the better performer until I tried the Dial. I'll get another shave in with it tomorrow. Yeah, swaps for a week or so would be good ... I can drop in a Wilkinson Sword, too, if you're still interested. We can work out the detail offline. Yeah - great idea! I'll PM you.
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Post by PJGH on Feb 2, 2014 7:51:39 GMT -6
Well, we leant each other our prospective Space Age razors and I had my first couple of goes with the PAL Adjustable. I have to say, I found it VERY much like MJC did - I just could not find that angle. Two days growth, yes, but it should have been able to cut it ... The PAL Adjustable is much like the Personna in shape and in use, similar, in that you really don't want to simply put the top of the head against your face and draw down, a là Schick, but use the bar to tension your skin and find that minute angle to do the business. The PAL Adjustable works in quite the opposite way to the Schick Dial, which is about blade gap; the PAL more about blade reveal. So, while the Schick Dial will, upon dialling up the numbers, open up the gap between the blade and the bar vertically, the Schick goes from L to H and closes up the lateral gap between the bar and blade. Schick: more gap = more aggressive. PAL: more gap = less aggressive. According to the instructions (which I found online), L and H equate to the "weight" of your beard. I mentioned I was on two days growth so swung the lever around to H. Well, after trying it this way, that way, changing the angle, changing the angle, changing the angle and changing the angle again, changing direction, washing off, starting again, huffing, trying again, I looked down into the sink and after running around my field like a Harvester drunk on too much scrumpy, I saw the merest hint of stubble in the water and a face like I'd gone at it with a blunt cartridge! I finished off with my (whisper) Merkur 23C and a SuperMax Blue Diamond blade, the most irritation-free combo I have in my collection. Shhh! Don't let on that I snuck a DE into the discussion. Soothed with a couple of helpings of Boots Bay Rum, off to bed. Experience has taught me one thing ... If you don't succeed at first, try again the morning after - something happens overnight, something happens to muscle adeptness and the following morning, things tend to have clicked. I learned to ride a bike this way, motorbike, too, car also. Let's see if it works for this PAL ... Left on H I made one pass with the grain to catch some of the overnight stubble. It worked. Not baby smooth, but perfectly acceptable to go to work. On both occasions, I followed MJC's method of doing the very opposite of what you'd do with, well, any other razor in order to find the bite. Place the bar on my face, handle parallel and then draw the handle up until it bites. The angle is slim, so when it bites, go with it with only micro-fine adjustments up or down to roll along with the contours. If my experience with the Personna is anything to go by, the next shave should be yet more natural. It's a mild razor, even on H for me, but they certainly have their place and the sheer joy of the shape of this thing would make a very happy owner. Read more: theoriginalsafetytoo.proboards.com/post/14683theoriginalsafetytoo.proboards.com/post/14684
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Post by mjclark on Feb 2, 2014 23:52:27 GMT -6
Wooh! Sorry you found the shave as frustrating as I did Paul, but glad it's not just me... ...and I hear you rocked the Dorset - the DD system deserves much more acclaim, and I'm pleased that you've experienced its magic for yourself though we may not speak of such matters here I've been off in the land of straights for the past couple of days, but have your Wilkinson Empire queued up - I'm expecting great things. So it's a thumbs down for the PAL adjustable though - perhaps it does have a sweet spot to be discovered, but with so many other razors to try that give so much better results so much more quickly, I really can't be bothered. Why would I ever reach for the PAL adjustable when there's a Schick available? And round here, there always is
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Post by PJGH on Feb 3, 2014 2:14:33 GMT -6
I'll certainly give it another go before returning ...
It most definitely reminded me of my early experiences with injectors in general - some are more forgiving over angle than others.
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Post by mpf9ret on Jan 23, 2016 2:26:28 GMT -6
Perhaps like others I was tempted to get the PAL because of its looks . I admit to not having read this thread, but was aware many did not get on with it. Mine arrived yesterday, and after failing to load a Personna [ injector key !! longer than Schick] , loaded it easily with a Schick.
Now the Shave. Though I have a coarse beard i also have fairly sensitive skin, so when using an adjustable always go for a Mid Setting. I chose to use a dependable soap [ Vitos Red ]. Chose an angle not dissimilar to that when using an ER, working on inclining it slightly when the head flush to my face. I used small strokes initially until I felt it was going good , indeed with the lather provided by this soap the razor felt as though glued to my face.
At the end I was more than pleased with the finish , much better than with the Schick Adjuster yesterday- though it was not with a Schick Blade. For me this is one to keep and use.
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Post by mpf9ret on Feb 4, 2016 2:13:31 GMT -6
I have just finished a shave with the PAL , with a Schick [chick] blade on its 8th use. For most of the shaves, I have used it on a mid setting ,and got good shaves. I have read a lot about people trying without success to get good shaves on the H setting, as they like aggressive razors in the belief that they will get a good shave. I think that approach is perhaps the wrong way to use the razor, and it performs better on milder settings.
On my last two shaves had the razor on L +1, and found it gave me a most comfortable and close shave without too much effort . I must point out that with fairly heavy growth I am a daily shaver through necessity . Using the razor as described certainly works for me, as today I only used the Alum because of habit , my face was not at all sore. As someone has said , Shave the way that works for you !
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