RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Oct 12, 2014 2:48:38 GMT -6
St James of London "new line" by Creightons Same stuff, four times the price...
Right. St James of London. By Creightons. For the uninitiated, Creightons are a UK based OEM manufacturer for, well, basically any high quality English shaving cream. Trumper, Truefitt, you name it. Unbeknownst to many, they also have a number of own products which can be obtained from their rather metrosexual website. For many years, their St James line has been an insider tip. You used to get a 200ml glass jar with tin lid full of creamy goodness for GBP 2.5-5 depending on whatever. A few months ago, Creightons in their unfathomable will decided to give St James a facelift. Ever since, the design has turned from stylishly old fashioned brown to swag. Ease of lathering: 10/10-- Nothing except the late Caraceni and, of course, Castle Forbes lathers like this cream. Nothing. You can safely discard some people's whingeing about their lather and their water (too soft, too hard, too whatever), this cream always delivers. Lather quality: 10/10-- Outstanding stability, density, and whiteness. All right, so maybe whiteness is not really an issue, and might even seem offensive to some PC types. But it really is very white. Apart from that, you get outstanding cushion and slickness, but we shall come to that in a moment. Cushion: 10/10-- Cushion is a feature I never really understood. Apparently, it matters a lot to those weak in the muscle control area. If so, St James, again, delivers. It offers a buffer between blade and blood for those who accidentally apply too much pressure. Which, truth be told, can be tiresome if you have to forcefully pave your way through the lather despite accurate blade angle and skin contact. Never fret, though, just make sure the lather is not too dense. Slickness: 10/10-- Slickness, or, as some people call it, glide, is important. You typically get excellent glide from cheap soaps (Wilkinson and Valobra sticks come to mind). St James' glide is just right. Neither will it turn your hands into something more commonly associated with gynaecologists, nor will it offer resistance to cutting. So, stellar stuff all around in the slickness department. Beard softening: 10/10-- Another great mystery in the area of shaving product reviews. While I cannot offer scientific proof of the cream's ability to soften my beard, I will say that even after repeated use, it has not hardened. Which I consider a definite pro, so 10 points again. General skincare: 8/10-- Ah, finally something I know and understand. Well, it is not Esbjerg. It is not Green Mountain Soap. Which means it gets 8 points here, simply because it works like a charm, but cannot compete with the other two. While we are at it, it should be mentioned that it plays along nicely with the St James aftershave gel. Which comes in a nice glass bottle with an excellent pump dispenser, leaves your skin well toned and with a powdery texture. Or so the wife says. I could not be arsed with such flowery language. Scent: n/a /10-- Roses, thorns, and all that. The scent is completely out of the ordinary. It says Cedarwood & Clarysage, but it actually smells like "rotting corpses" (according to my wife, and I really would not want to know how she knows), "rotting foliage" (me), or "wood, leaves, and something strange" (everybody else). Not an unpleasant scent, but I would not necessarily recommend the Cologne, unless you are a necrophiliac silvan elf. Price: 10/10-- If you can get a voucher code and a rebate, St James is a killer offer. Even at its regular price of GBP 15 for a 200ml glass(!) jar with a tin(!!) lid, it is very reasonably priced. Certainly more so than the run-of-the-mill modern cream or soap made by hobby soapmongers and clad in recycled PET bottles with garish colours. HTGAM anyone? Packaging: 10/10-- Killer, but I think I might have mentioned this before. Heavy glass, high quality (I think) tin, and the ASG and Cologne come with extremely well made pump dispensers. Compared to the cheap stuff you get elsewhere, St James is close to Penhaligon's quality. Would I buy again? Not for a very long time. I am now the proud owner of three sets of St James. Given the efficiency of these products, these three jars would last for a year or two. Since I have "too many" other products, I cannot quite see when I will get rid of the three jars in any event. And finally here is a shot of a 35mm Thäter with a St James lather explosion.
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Post by wchnu on Oct 12, 2014 20:52:39 GMT -6
WOW Excellent report there. Thanks for all that.
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Post by fram773 on Oct 13, 2014 8:53:36 GMT -6
I hate creams but I think I will get it just for the jar.
Anyways can I get you started on kokum butter?
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Oct 13, 2014 10:51:49 GMT -6
Thanks, fram773. While you are at it, do buy their bottom line products as well. The old line is on sale at GBP 2, or thereabouts. The tubes are a bit tacky, but the creams deliver. Kokom butter is the magic ingredient in HTGAM and the other new soaps, right? If so, thank you very much, but I shall pass. I cannot condone any behaviour that involves illicit advertising, and there are far too many raving reviews of these products around for my taste. I may be wrong, of course, but this smacks of shilling. Moreover, friends of mine in the US have tried them, and they were less than enthusiastic.
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Post by fram773 on Oct 13, 2014 12:05:25 GMT -6
Kokum is in HTGAM and PPF but not most. The worst of the lot is IMO Stirling. HTGAM is actually pretty good and I love the Cavendish scent and I only quit using it because I seemed to give me acne. With these artisan, or amateur soaps I call them, it can be a hit or miss. Most often miss.
The rave reviews may seem like shilling and I have suspected so, but I think for the most part no. You have to remember most forum members are American. Not to put down all Americans, of which I am one, but you have to keep in mind that alot of WalMart mentality Muricans don't really understand the concept of refinement. Add that most of these amataeur soap makers are USA based, the patriotic sentiment kicks in. That and the anti establishment culture of the wet shaving movement and the anti corporatism that it breeds blinds people. Cognitive dissonance at work eh? I have tried many of these amateur soaps and do they perform well? Yes. But I still don't like them. Some like TSD lanolin performed well but had a crude consistency and a cheap perfume type smell. Stirling, which I mentioned as being the worst of the lot, performed really well but felt slimy and left residue that was hard to wash off.
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Oct 14, 2014 4:32:14 GMT -6
All very true, which is why I take any online review with an excavator shovel of salt.
A few years back, I put together a checklist for online reviews for shaving products at SRP, but unfortunately, it went down along with their review section. It was not fancy at all. Mainly, it stated that a good review should, first and foremost, put the product into perspective. Which is what feels particularly strange about most HTGAM reviews. They simply say, 'HTGAM is da bomb' (if you pardon this pun playing on another strangely popular brand from a couple of years ago). Almost never do the reviewers name alternative products, nor do they disclose their benchmark products. Which immediately poses the question why they do not do that. There are a few products which are almost universally accepted as being the benchmark. The venerable Castle Forbes line comes to mind. It excels in any area worth testing, whether it be efficiency, base products used, packaging, or performance. True, there have been isolated reports of mild allergic reactions, but then again, some people believe in chemtrails. It is therefore fair to say that unless you have tested CF, your reviews might lack a proper benchmark. There are a number of other products which come close, but are less universally accepted. Martin de Candre gets a lot of praise, but I found it overpriced. Santa Maria Novella (both old and new formula) would be another example of a highly praised product which failed to deliver for me (tested with various degrees of water hardness to no avail).
However, there is also a point to be made for more pedestrian products. For many people good is enough, in which case there is a large variety of products to choose from. While in the US and Europe alike, certain supermarket brands are highly popular, trading up often leads to cheap-but-good products being traded for expensive-but-not-much-better products. This is where patriotism, uninformedness, and devious marketing techniques come into play. Kokum butter being a prime example. There is nothing wrong with Kokum butter. However, in and by itself, it will not noticeably alter the performance of a soap. But because many people have by now publicly stated it would, buyers accept this as a fact. Unfortunately, understanding the soap making process requires a bit of knowledge in the areas of chemistry and physics (commonly referred to as "sciences"), and the anti establishment stance of a small but vociferous group of wetshavers seems to be at odds with science. Instead, these people seem to prefer to believe in the shaving equivalent of snake oil. And they refuse to accept that not everybody likes to smell like a child molester (Tabac, anyone?), thus dismissing many modern scents as frou-frou.
All of which is nice and dandy as long as potential buyers get the chance to not just keep an open mind, but also to obtain fact based information instead of fairy tales. Which is one of the main reasons why I refuse to take review writing too seriously. Over the years, I have come across too many products which worked for me like a charm which completely failed to deliver elsewhere. Like Scottish Fine Soaps which, apparently, was a disaster for you, but is one of five products I regularly use. Or maybe six. I have a new jar of the latest Penhaligon's brushless cream sitting on my vanity...
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Post by mjclark on Oct 14, 2014 5:31:35 GMT -6
No doubt Creightons is the bomb! They also make Real Shaving Co creams in a 100ml plastic tube, available from Poundstretcher in UK for £1.00 They have a strong lavender and teatree scent which I love and the superb lather we expect. Think on...
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Oct 14, 2014 8:20:34 GMT -6
Creightons simply make good stuff. It is a bit of shame that the price for St James has been raised so much. Yet still, compare this to almost any other cream in the market - keeping in mind the glass jar, tin lid, and elegant scent - and you will be hard pressed to find a better deal. Not least because Creightons know what they are doing. After all, they have more than a few years experience, and their production facilities offer a bit more quality assurance than your average garden shed. Call me boring, but I much prefer my cosmetics products to have undergone rigid testing and QA over "oh, look, Ma!, they're selling generic soap stock and scented oils from China on the interwebs!!!" amateur products.
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RocketMan
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Post by RocketMan on Oct 14, 2014 23:53:34 GMT -6
I love a quality soap and it is great to read up.
Where was this news about Creightons when their products were still well priced? : )
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RobinK
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Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Oct 15, 2014 11:38:05 GMT -6
How about here, here or here? And the price increase has only affected the St James line. The rest is still very, very affordable.
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RocketMan
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Post by RocketMan on Oct 16, 2014 23:41:46 GMT -6
How about here, here or here? And the price increase has only affected the St James line. The rest is still very, very affordable. Well. Well and Well. That covered it nicely! It seems like the cat was out of the bag some time ago. My bad. Thnx BeBerlin. You make this particular soap, the St James, seem quite delicious I must say. You put it up with Castle Forbes and that is keeping fine company. I appreciate your commenting on the whiteness of the cream and I imagine it looks great when the white Thater is loaded. Fabulous brush I imagine. Cushion. Clays and similar additives can add cushion - that sense you get that you are sinking your blade into a substantial whipped soap and not into a thin, bubbly, soap. It is most noticeable when it is missing really. Try brushing up a hand soap and apply that. No cushion. It just feels flat. Also, I find most of the 'artisan' hand made shave soaps I have found at local fairs, the craft places, etc, all have that lack of depth that a well cushioned shave soap will bring. . The fair soap makers all list off the things a shave soap should have, but really don't even know what it is there soap is missing. Castle Forbes. Yummmmmm. Cushionnnnn!!! It even feels safer to put your blade to your skin with a layer of CF. It really does. I will certainly look at Creighton's because I have been using Truefitt and Trumpers for some time and I'm feeling a little cheated now. Sigh. Nothing is at is seems. : / Thnx for the patience and helpful posts. : )
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RocketMan
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Post by RocketMan on Oct 16, 2014 23:54:35 GMT -6
I took a peek at that Creightons link above and realized that the Real Shaving Co shaving cream is cheap and one of the few things available around here. I sniffed one once at the drug store some years ago and passed. I know folks didn't think much of it 'on the boards' when I last went looking for shave soap advice. Been a while.
Is that the stuff to get??
Also, the Truefitt product they have, No.10, that is not the same stuff at all as the other creams.
I will go to the drugstore tomorrow then and pick one up. Razors drawn.
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Oct 17, 2014 0:09:33 GMT -6
It is a more than decent shaving cream. If you expect a refined (some might say, brutally monodimensional) scent like Castle Forbes offers it, you will be in for a surprise. Whether good or bad depends on your personal preferences. Either way, the Creightons scents do not linger overly long, but they will cling to your brush (which is why I do not use them with my favourite brushes). That Thäter is really quite nice, albeit that this particular model is a bit over the top, what with its 35mm ring size and a total height of 13cm. But it is fun to use nonetheless. Two swipes to cover your entire head if you are so inclined... Cushion. Right. Well, I predominantly use cut-throat or antique SE razors where the cushion as you describe just gets in the way, really. Once you know what you are doing, that is. Edit: As far as products are concerned, Creightons only sell their own brands on their website beautyatcreightons.com. Which is fine by me, because I do not find the big English brands particularly appealing from a price/performance ratio perspective. As I said, the Creightons scents are basic, if not rustic, but that is the price you have to pay (ie most likely the reason for their being so cheap) for using cheap aromatics. Then again, who cares? I know quite a few high priced products whose scents do not impress much. As far as reviews on shaving forums are concerned, I simply could not be bothered. Most, and depending on the board, all, reviewers there fall into either of two categories. One: "Look, I got enough money to afford some insanely priced product, and because it was expensive, it must be good!!1" This is how, in my opinion, Santa Maria Novella and Martin de Candra became famous. Two: "I have only ever bought Williams soap, and anything that costs more is either foreign, gay, or otherwise crap!!1" You get a lot of the latter from US based forums, and I would not trust consumer reviews there in any event (see above, shilling). As for reviews I write (and I used to write a lot whilst still active at SRP), I have become very cautious over the years. Thankfully, I was able to start with a) Castle Forbes, and b) basically any other shaving product worth mentioning, because I lived next to Germany's (possibly Europe's) best stocked shaving shop, and they let me take liberal samples. Yet still, some products I used to find smashin' proved less than that in the hands (or, rather, on the faces) of other users. Sweeping remarks like, "the best ever", "explodes into überlather", or "forget about Castle Forbes" therefore make me highly suspicious. Especially in connection with newly launched products like the aforementioned Kokum butter ones.
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RocketMan
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Post by RocketMan on Oct 17, 2014 17:21:37 GMT -6
Cushion. Right. Well, I predominantly use cut-throat or antique SE razors where the cushion as you describe just gets in the way, really. Once you know what you are doing, that is. ; Thnx. When I figure out what I'm doing perhaps I'll have another response. You do have a way with words.
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RocketMan
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Post by RocketMan on Nov 13, 2014 14:35:59 GMT -6
I took a peek at that Creightons link above and realized that the Real Shaving Co shaving cream is cheap and one of the few things available around here....I will go to the drugstore tomorrow then and pick one up. Razors drawn. Well I was a little off on doing it 'tomorrow', but I can say that I picked some up yesterday. It is a darn shame I passed on the Real Shaving Co cream all this time as there is really nothing else in the stores here. I picked up the 'sensitive' formulation and was very pleasantly surprised. This cream whipped up very, very nicely. I was quite impressed really and thoroughly enjoyed the shave. The scent is a little narrow of notes and a tad clingy, but the cream for the price is excellent. As this shave cream is obtainable in one of the main drug store chains here, London Drugs, I will definitely recommend it to local friends as a more than adequate choice. Thnx for the info. I guess I should have been paying attention all along! : /
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