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Post by twhite on Apr 12, 2019 16:32:41 GMT -6
wedge contacted me about honing up a wedge. He asked if I could post a few pictures of the process. When I first get a blade to hone. I give it a thorough looking over. I look for the obvious. Chipped, overly sharpened(meaning it is too short now)smile or frown on the blade. I then take my magnifying loop and inspect the edge. Looking for rolled edges, micro chips and rust. Once I have assessed the blade I know what I need to do. In this case the blade looked VERY good. Micro chips and a rolled edge on one corner. The bevel was really good. So my plan went as follows. I gave the blade a light stroke across the 1000 grit Naniwa stone to very slightly blunt the edge and even it up a bit. I use electrician tape over the spine. Being sure to replace it after every grit. I then proceeded to do a bit of rough grinding. 70 circular strokes each side. Then a progression of 10,7,5,3,2,1 strokes on each side. I then inspected the blade for any micro chips and burs. Mind you, all of the work on the stones are done with no pressure. Only enough to move the blade across the stone. I found I needed to the count down one more time. This is what I ended up with after 1000 grit Moving on to my 3000 stone. I did the same progression. Only about 15 circular strokes per side and the count down. When I reached the 1 stroke. I did 20 of them. Ended up with this. On to 8000. I only did the count down exactly like above. Here are the results. Same with 12000 Next I went to 1 micron lapping film on top of a flat. Make sure to put 1 piece of damp paper down between the substrate and film. This provides a slight cushion. On this step I only did single strokes each side. 20 per side. I finished up on my @drygulch Latigo strop. 20 strokes on the linen and 70 on the leather. Ready to shave.
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Post by ordinaryshaver on Apr 12, 2019 20:05:48 GMT -6
Good man Sir Tom!
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Wedge hone
Apr 12, 2019 22:38:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by wchnu on Apr 12, 2019 22:38:04 GMT -6
Awesome Sir Tom!!
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Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on May 8, 2019 14:36:30 GMT -6
I could use some help. I honed my first wedge blade -- it is the GEM Wedge that came with the set I recently acquired from Dave. The bevel was curvy looking, but instead of checking to see if it was level, I just plunged ahead and followed Tom's ( twhite ) process. I was concerned that the bevel was uneven looking, but I could see the edge improving as I monitored it with my jewelers loop (30x and 60x). I figured that even if the bevel was "wavy", as long as it was uniformly sharp (and sharp enough), I'd be okay. So let's jump to the shave....after I returned from the Emergency Room....just kidding. The shave was actually not bad....not great, but not bad. I did 3 full passes and a touch-up -- no weepers, no irritation -- a little tuggy around the chin, but I managed to get a sort-of-close, not-uncomfortable shave. I did a single pass with a new-to-me Pal Injecto-matic and that pretty much gave me a DFS. Now I'm thinking that I have 2 options: - I could continue honing the wavy bevel at the higher grits (8000, 1 micron .3 micron) and then give it a really good stropping
- I could go back to square 1 and instead of starting at 1000 maybe do some real bevel setting with my 320 Shapton stone, then move back to the 1000 -- and try to get the blade level. I don't mind putting in the work, I'm not exactly sure how to get the blade really level.
Here are my questions:
- Do I need to level out the bevel? Or just hone the existing "wavy" bevel at the higher grits?
- Assuming the answer is level out the bevel, can I do that by just taping the spine (as I've been doing) and just grind away using the lower grits? Basically, will the long parts naturally whittle down to the short parts -- or do I need to just focus on whittling the long parts down by focusing exclusively on them until I get it even?
And I guess the real question will be, if I do manage to even it out -- which is shortening the long parts of the blade until they match the shortest part of the blade....will the blade still be long enough to work? My gut tells me that it would, but I thought I'd ask.
Any and all advice is welcome. I've got a couple of more wedge blades, but before I start tackling them, I thought I'd try to get this one in better shaving shape. And just so you know my "state of mind", despite not having the best results with this latest shave, I had a lot of fun both with the honing process and the shave today. There is something intrinsically satisfying about honing and shaving with a wedge.
Lastly, here's what I've got for materials to work with: 320, 1000 and 5000 Shapton Stones, and a pack of 3M lapping films with various grits (and flat piece of granite that I use to sharpen my chisels), plus a 250 diamond plate that I use for flattening the stones (but can also be used to shave metal quickly), a balsa wood strop with one side red CrOx and the other side green CrOx, a leather strop (on wood) with green CrOx, and a whipped dog (poor man's) leather hanging strop (which is what I used as a final step). The list is actually longer than this since I sharpen lots of knives, axes, chisels, gardening tools, lawn mower blades, chainsaw chains...but never a razor blade (wedge or other) until yesterday.
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Post by twhite on May 8, 2019 14:52:55 GMT -6
I could use some help. I honed my first wedge blade -- it is the GEM Wedge that came with the set I recently acquired from Dave. The bevel was curvy looking, but instead of checking to see if it was level, I just plunged ahead and followed Tom's ( twhite ) process. I was concerned that the bevel was uneven looking, but I could see the edge improving as I monitored it with my jewelers loop (30x and 60x). I figured that even if the bevel was "wavy", as long as it was uniformly sharp (and sharp enough), I'd be okay. So let's jump to the shave....after I returned from the Emergency Room....just kidding. The shave was actually not bad....not great, but not bad. I did 3 full passes and a touch-up -- no weepers, no irritation -- a little tuggy around the chin, but I managed to get a sort-of-close, not-uncomfortable shave. I did a single pass with a new-to-me Pal Injecto-matic and that pretty much gave me a DFS. Now I'm thinking that I have 2 options: - I could continue honing the wavy bevel at the higher grits (8000, 1 micron .3 micron) and then give it a really good stropping
- I could go back to square 1 and instead of starting at 1000 maybe do some real bevel setting with my 320 Shapton stone, then move back to the 1000 -- and try to get the blade level. I don't mind putting in the work, I'm not exactly sure how to get the blade really level.
Here are my questions:
- Do I need to level out the bevel? Or just hone the existing "wavy" bevel at the higher grits?
- Assuming the answer is level out the bevel, can I do that by just taping the spine (as I've been doing) and just grind away using the lower grits? Basically, will the long parts naturally whittle down to the short parts -- or do I need to just focus on whittling the long parts down my focusing exclusively on them until I get it even?
And I guess the real question will be, if I do manage to even it out -- which is shortening the long parts of the blade until they match the shortest part of the blade....will the blade still be long enough to work? My gut tells me that it would, but I thought I'd ask.
Any and all advice is welcome. I've got a couple of more wedge blades, but before I start tackling them, I thought I'd try to get this one in better shaving shape. And just so you know my "state of mind", despite not having the best results with this latest shave, I had a lot of fun both with the honing process and the shave today. There is something intrinsically satisfying about honing and shaving with a wedge.
Lastly, here's what I've got for materials to work with: 320, 1000 and 5000 Shapton Stones, and a pack of 3M lapping films with various grits (and flat piece of granite that I use to sharpen my chisels), plus a 250 diamond plate that I use for flattening the stones (but can also be used to shave metal quickly), a balsa wood strop with one side red CrOx and the other side green CrOx, a leather strop (on wood) with green CrOx, and a whipped dog (poor man's) leather hanging strop (which is what I used as a final step). The list is actually longer than this since I sharpen lots of knives, axes, chisels, gardening tools, lawn mower blades, chainsaw chains...but never a razor blade (wedge or other) until yesterday. View Attachment
Pictures of the bevel will be of great help. You have to get the bevel set with 1000 first. Before moving forward. If it is really crappy you will need to do 300 first. I will get more in-depth tonight for you. I will see if I have a blade I can take pictures of the steps.
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Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on May 8, 2019 15:06:13 GMT -6
Thanks, Tom. I’m going to try and take some decent shots of the bevel.
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Post by twhite on May 8, 2019 15:34:04 GMT -6
Ok. I just looked at your pictures on my computer. I think all you need to do is go back to 1000 grit and re set the bevel. Do not worry about the slight smile on the very edges. Those will be covered by the blade stops.
When you think you have the bevel set. Hold it up to a good light. You should not see any reflection of light along the edge. If you do see reflection it is usually 2 things. Not fully set on the bevel in that spot or it is a wire burr reflection. If it is a wire burr. Slide the blade across a piece of wood, like you want so slice a piece off. This will remove the burr. Then go back and give it several more strokes on the stone. If the bevel is set properly you should be able to cut some arm hair.
Then move on to finer stones to polish and refine the edge.
I will give my freshly honed blades 30 strokes on the linen then 100 on the leather. They will smooth out after a shave or two. Not too much pressure Stropping you can roll the very edge a bit.
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Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on May 8, 2019 15:46:51 GMT -6
Okay -- here are some bevel pics. Basically, I think of the bevel having 3 parts: 1. The edge, which may have chips or saw teeth -- that's what I was originally trying to correct. There were no substantial chips in the blade, but the edge was unrefined and so I started with the 1000 and went up from there. 2. The levelness of the edge. If you stand the razor on the cutting edge on a perfectly flat surface, does it sit evenly, or does it rock and or roll. Basically is there a smile or frown on the blade....mine came with a smirk. One side appears to be lower than the other, or there is a sine wave type look. 3. The width of the bevel. If you look at the width of the beveled edge, it is uneven. I saw the one you did and it looks like a perfectly straight line across and the width of the polished bevel looks even all the way across. Mine is far from a straight line, and definitely not even....I'm sure it has to do with problem #2 above. So I blithely ignored problems 2 and 3, hoping that by working the edge it would somehow correct 2 & 3 -- or that 2 & 3 weren't going to cause a problem with the shave. I figure a slanted blade might cut just fine -- sort of like an unmentionable slant. Now I've tried getting straight bevels on chisels, and have a very hard time doing it without a jig. So do I just tape the ends of the wedge and work the full blade (evenly) on a low grit -- will that take out the "smirk"? Or do I need to let the wedge hang off the side of the stone and work down the side that is too long to get it to even out? Once the blade is even, I'm assuming a straight bevel will (problem #3) follow just by doing the "standard" steps. Thanks for looking at this stuff, Tom.
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Post by twhite on May 8, 2019 16:30:03 GMT -6
Ok. I have had blades that are bent like you stated. In those cases I ignored that and just made sure that there is a bevel. Disregard how big and small it gets along it. I try to have the largest sections on one side match the largest on the other side.
So in the center of one side will be very small the opposite side is large.
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Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on May 8, 2019 16:56:52 GMT -6
Ok. I have had blades that are bent like you stated. In those cases I ignored that and just made sure that there is a bevel. Disregard how big and small it gets along it. I try to have the largest sections on one side match the largest on the other side. So in the center of one side will be very small the opposite side is large. Got it. Thanks, Tom. I'm going to do some more work on it tonight. I get the feeling that someone....many years ago....may have tried to set the bevel with lots of pressure and maybe an uneven stone, and their "handiwork" is more than I can undo. But it shaved pretty well, even with the quirky bevel, once I sharpened it, so I think if I clean it up per your suggestion, and put really good edge on it, it'll shave just fine. I've got 2 more wedges -- one with some issues, and one that looks to be in pretty great shape. I'll tackle the better looking one after I get done with the Franken-Bevel here.
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Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on May 10, 2019 14:47:05 GMT -6
I'm posting this in hopes that others will learn from my (many) missteps and (few) triumphs. Here are some lessons learned: - Test fit the wedge blade in the razor before sharpening -- or be surprised like me. It's very possible that the wedge doesn't fit the razor anymore (or perhaps never did). So I have 3 wedges I've been working on that came with 3 different razors: 1904ish Gem LC (GEM "Z" Wedge), 19?? Perfecta LC (G. LEBLOND Nimes), 1901 Kampfe Bros LC (Kampfe Bros 3 Stars).
- The Gem looks like it fits, but due to the uneveness of the blade, the short part of the blade appears to be too far back from the comb/teeth. This might help explain my mild shave. There is basically negative blade exposure combined with a smaller blade gap than when a modern blade is used....I experienced this with a Burham recently -- I had de-spined a GEM blade, and the result is was a not-very-close shave.
- The Perfecta and LEBLOND blade (while presumably both French) do not work well together at all. The wedge does not touch the blade stops, and it is so far back that it won't cut hair (perhaps if the hair was long enough to reach the blade, but it doesn't shave. It's not a length thing, it's just that the side blade clips are fixed with no adjustments and won't allow the wedge to slide down far enough. The Perfecta takes a modern GEM blade, and I have other LC's to try with this wedge blade. The wedge itself sharpened much better (more evenly) than the Gem blade, and being a fan of the city of Nimes, I am hopeful that I'll get to shave with this wedge eventually.
- The Kampfe Bros wedge fits in 1 (I now have a total of 5) Kampfe Bros razors -- the one it came with. That's largely because the blade clamps have some spring to them, and are not just fixed in place. Plus the width is correct....for my older Kampfe LC's (which require a wedge as they have no blade stops), the wedge is too wide for the razor. This can be remedied (and since I have a spare KB Wedge), I will (one day) attempt to grind off (by grinder or diamond plate) enough off each side for it to fit.
- Level the blade, if you can spare the metal. I didn't attempt this (yet) with the Gem or the LeBlond, but I had some very nasty chips in the KB wedge, and so I did what I've heard others refer to as bread-cutting. I took the blade to my diamond plate and (as if I were cutting bread), ran the edge up and down the plate until the chips were gone and the blade was even. Then when I started honing, a really pretty bevel appeared. I think I'm going to try this technique on the Gem blade to see if I can't get the blade even and subsequent fix the funky bevel as well. The Gem may have a bit of a twist in it, which wouldn't get fixed by this, but I'll deal with that when I get there.
- Take your time and approach this as a zen activity. This is not my natural state. I want to run through the steps, pop the wedge in and have an awesome shave. I know better than that from other activities -- I have a small collection of Japanese knives, and whenever I sit down to sharpen them, I do it slowly, with purpose and I am mindful of each step in the process. If you don't take pleasure from, or can't summon the patience to, deliberately remove metal in a controlled and thoughtful way....then I recommend sending your blades out. While I'm not this guy by nature, I have come to realize that these types of activities are important for me to try and master. The first wedge sharpening was rushed, every subsequent honing and sharpening (right down to the stropping) has been better and longer.
So I've still not had a great wedge shave, but I do think I'll get there. I hope this is helpful, and for those who are more expert at this, please feel free to correct anything I may have gotten wrong.
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Post by IschiaPP on Aug 25, 2019 7:43:12 GMT -6
I have difficulty, not having the accessory to sharpen the wedge blades for the lather catchers, in their use. Taking advantage of the geometry similarity of super-economical shavettes with the blade holder, sharpening and shearing become even simpler. Especially waiting to find the specific support.
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Post by jrzyhillbilly on Sept 6, 2019 8:30:42 GMT -6
.... snip ....... I use electrician tape over the spine. Being sure to replace it after every grit. ....snip...... Ok, so if I understand correctly, you don't use the little honing tool handle that comes with some lather catchers for honing on stones? Only use that little tool for stropping?? Going to work on honing 1 blade today from 1000 grit on up and if (trying to stay positive) it goes well, I'll do a few more. I have a bunch to do; but want to get 1 done correctly before doing more. And thank you all for the details in this thread and the "missteps" so I know what to try to avoid.
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Post by twhite on Sept 6, 2019 8:37:17 GMT -6
.... snip ....... I use electrician tape over the spine. Being sure to replace it after every grit. ....snip...... Ok, so if I understand correctly, you don't use the little honing tool handle that comes with some lather catchers for honing on stones? Only use that little tool for stropping?? Going to work on honing 1 blade today from 1000 grit on up and if (trying to stay positive) it goes well, I'll do a few more. I have a bunch to do; but want to get 1 done correctly before doing more. And thank you all for the details in this thread and the "missteps" so I know what to try to avoid. I do not use it. Others do I suppose. It is a personal choice. When I was learning I did not not have the blade holder. Try different ways to see what you prefer. Also if you have plenty of blades. Start with a blade that is in good condition to start with. That will save you a lot of heartache while learning. Don’t get discouraged it might take 10 try’s before you get your first usable edge. It will get easier over time.
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Post by jrzyhillbilly on Sept 6, 2019 9:16:22 GMT -6
Ok, so if I understand correctly, you don't use the little honing tool handle that comes with some lather catchers for honing on stones? Only use that little tool for stropping?? Going to work on honing 1 blade today from 1000 grit on up and if (trying to stay positive) it goes well, I'll do a few more. I have a bunch to do; but want to get 1 done correctly before doing more. And thank you all for the details in this thread and the "missteps" so I know what to try to avoid. I do not use it. Others do I suppose. It is a personal choice. When I was learning I did not not have the blade holder. Try different ways to see what you prefer. Also if you have plenty of blades. Start with a blade that is in good condition to start with. That will save you a lot of heartache while learning. Don’t get discouraged it might take 10 try’s before you get your first usable edge. It will get easier over time. One of these are what I will start with - well not the one with the big chips. Two need honing from 1000 up. Rest I think or hope I can get away with starting at 8k or 12k. The other blades I have are all part of 7 day or multiple blade boxed sets and I want to get better before I start on those sets.
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