|
Post by brandaves on Dec 10, 2019 12:34:17 GMT -6
I've mentioned this in the past but it's something I truly don't understand. After I began my SE journey and found out how effortless and efficient even early SE razors can be, how on earth did unmentionables become the standard choice? I mean let's be honest, the market after Mr. Unmentionable introduced his razors to the world it triggered a sharp shift in that direction. Sure, Gem and Schick still had their SE share but it grew smaller and smaller over the years.
I began this hobby with unmentionables and still use them, but I honestly get much better and easier shaves with my vintage SE razors. Was it marketing? Government contracts during war years? There must be some reason for this change in the shaving norm. Does anyone have any insight on this?
I'm guessing Fuzzy gonna be in this thread a lot! Sorry fuzzy, its a question worth exploring I think.
|
|
|
Post by wchnu on Dec 10, 2019 12:40:35 GMT -6
I've mentioned this in the past but it's something I truly don't understand. After I began my SE journey and found out how effortless and efficient even early SE razors can be, how on earth did unmentionables become the standard choice? I mean let's be honest, the market after Mr. Unmentionable introduced his razors to the world it triggered a sharp shift in that direction. Sure, Gem and Schick still had their SE share but it grew smaller and smaller over the years. I began this hobby with unmentionables and still use them, but I honestly get much better and easier shaves with my vintage SE razors. Was it marketing? Government contracts during war years? There must be some reason for this change in the shaving norm. Does anyone have any insight on this? I'm guessing Fuzzy gonna be in this thread a lot! Sorry fuzzy, its a question worth exploring I think. There is nothing wrong with this question at all. Proceed along the path....
|
|
|
Post by twhite on Dec 10, 2019 12:56:29 GMT -6
To me it seems it all boils down to superior marketing. It also may be that unmentionables we’re cheaper than SE’s. Not sure of this.
I too started out with non SE razors. Once I got my first shave with a Gem 1912 then a few weeks later with my Schick E 2. It was all over for the other camp. I too still enjoy an occasional shave with unmentionables.
I feel that SE Shaving is far easier to shall we say master. It is the blade feel for me. With SE Blades I can instantly adjust just from the feel of the blade on my face.
That is my 2 cents.
Tom
|
|
riverrun
Lather Catcher
sɐǝɹpu∀
Posts: 888
|
Post by riverrun on Dec 10, 2019 13:49:07 GMT -6
Gillette were the first company that had blades you didn’t have to hone yourself. Game won and over. Disposable SE blades were introduced years later when it was too late. In 1905 there were two options: wedge blades that required honing and stropping and unmentionable blades that didn’t. What we now use as SE blades were introduced when Gillette sold tens of millions of their blades each year. I’m almost surprised SE lasted as long as it did and more than happy I can still get blades.
|
|
|
Post by brandaves on Dec 10, 2019 13:56:06 GMT -6
Gillette were the first company that had blades you didn’t have to hone yourself. Game won and over. Disposable SE blades were introduced years later when it was too late. In 1905 there were two options: wedge blades that required honing and stropping and unmentionable blades that didn’t. What we now use as SE blades were introduced when Gillette sold tens of millions of their blades each year. I’m almost surprised SE lasted as long as it did and more than happy I can still get blades. Thank you. I didn't know that. Certainly the game changer I was thinking had to be there and was just ignorant of. I guess I just assumed SE disposable blades came first because of their current popularity as an industrial blade. Thanks for chiming in riverrun
|
|
|
Post by IschiaPP on Dec 10, 2019 14:00:41 GMT -6
Does anyone have any insight on this? For the same feeling, I've searched this some years ago. All It's around money. (Devil's dung, with Saint Basil the Great) When started, unmentionable blade gave opportunity to people to not spend in barbershop. With money, industry produced some super-cheap razors. Shaving become democratic. One of the most iconic (not cheap at all for the time!!!) is called Model 195 because of the $1,95 price. Then in WWII contract with Army grew up health of that brand. And was normal to have that type as common in supermarket. Doing this, other better ways to shave was even less used and now known. Just forum geeks know that SE's and other shaving systems exist. With the same idea, I searched why heavy metals are so used. The same answer. What we see in the market is the natural consequence.
|
|
|
Post by IschiaPP on Dec 10, 2019 14:09:01 GMT -6
|
|
riverrun
Lather Catcher
sɐǝɹpu∀
Posts: 888
|
Post by riverrun on Dec 10, 2019 14:10:01 GMT -6
Does anyone have any insight on this? For the same feeling, I've searched this some years ago. All It's around money. (Devil's dung, with Saint Basil the Great) When started, unmentionable blade gave opportunity to people to not spend in barbershop. With money, industry produced some super-cheap razors. Shaving become democratic. One of the most iconic (not cheap at all for the time!!!) is called Model 195 because of the $1,95 price. Then in WWII contract with Army grew up health of that brand. And was normal to have that type as common in supermarket. Doing this, other better ways to shave was even less used and now known. Just forum geeks know that SE's and other shaving systems exist. With the same idea, I searched why heavy metals are so used. The same answer. What we see in the market is the natural consequence. Interestingly, Gillette refused to sell their razors for less than $5 while SE razors where a lot cheaper. Here is a very good read on the subject: chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2716&context=journal_articles
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 14:25:11 GMT -6
I've mentioned this in the past but it's something I truly don't understand. After I began my SE journey and found out how effortless and efficient even early SE razors can be, how on earth did unmentionables become the standard choice? I mean let's be honest, the market after Mr. Unmentionable introduced his razors to the world it triggered a sharp shift in that direction. Sure, Gem and Schick still had their SE share but it grew smaller and smaller over the years. I began this hobby with unmentionables and still use them, but I honestly get much better and easier shaves with my vintage SE razors. Was it marketing? Government contracts during war years? There must be some reason for this change in the shaving norm. Does anyone have any insight on this? I'm guessing Fuzzy gonna be in this thread a lot! Sorry fuzzy, its a question worth exploring I think. You hit the nail on the head. WW1 and govt contracts are responsible for unmentionables and even the wrist watch. Before the trench watch, everyone wore pocket watches. The military drives consumer demands because the GI's get hooked on the new tech. Thank uncle Sam for the internet, GPS, camel backs, M&M's, spam, the jeep, and the hummer too. Gillette was a smart business man. Its amazing that the company he started still exists. Old institutions like his are mostly gone. Sears isn't far behind.
|
|
|
Post by IschiaPP on Dec 10, 2019 14:40:23 GMT -6
Here is a very good read on the subject Very nice. Thanks. In conclusion part (pg 254) this is written: It was at the point of the expiration of the 1904 patents that Gillette started to play something like razors-and-blades *, though the actual facts are much more interesting than that. Before the expiration of the 1904 patents, the multi-blade market was segmented, with Gillette occupying the high end with razor sets listing at $5 and other brands such as Ever-Ready and Gem Junior occupying the low end with sets listing at $1. Given Gillette's high handle prices, it had to fear entry in handles, but it had a solution to that entry: it dropped its handle prices to match those of its multi-blade competitors. And Gillette simultaneously introduced a new patented razor handle sold at its traditional high price point. Gillette was now selling a product line, with the oldstyle Gillette priced to compete at the low end and the new Gillette occupying the high end. Gillette foreclosed low-end entry by doing it itself, and yet it also offered an upgrade path with the new handle. * The razors-and-blades story offers a foundational understanding of a key area of economics and strategy: invest in an installed base by selling the razor handles at low prices or even giving them away, then sell the razor blades at high prices to justify the prior investment Some decades after, in 1958 Model 195 was born.
|
|
|
Post by jayaruh on Dec 10, 2019 15:24:57 GMT -6
GEM's original SE blades did not have any cutouts and were meant to be stropped. I have some of the Gem Cutlery blades that I strop and use in my lather catchers. I also now have some Damaskeene blades that also have no cutout. I will be giving those a shot too. I have been pleased with my 100+ year old blades. Because they have no cutouts, they will not work in Micromatics.
|
|
|
Post by culcreuch on Dec 10, 2019 15:40:25 GMT -6
This is a very interesting read!
|
|
rayr
Blade King
Posts: 427
|
Post by rayr on Dec 10, 2019 15:55:15 GMT -6
GEM's original SE blades did not have any cutouts and were meant to be stropped. I have some of the Gem Cutlery blades that I strop and use in my lather catchers. I also now have some Damaskeene blades that also have no cutout. I will be giving those a shot too. I have been pleased with my 100+ year old blades. Because they have no cutouts, they will not work in Micromatics. It seems all the major players In the late 20's were pushing for a change in blade patents, there were so many competitors in the market making blades to compete with Gillette, American Safety Razor and even Valet Autostrop. Repeat blade sales are the profit center of shaving razors, so having new patented designs with different cutouts that would only fit in new model razors kept the copy cats at bay for awhile, at least in the short run it made it easier to sue them for patent infringement. In the long run, it's a losing battle without radical changes in razor and blade design.
|
|
|
Post by IschiaPP on Dec 10, 2019 16:06:17 GMT -6
... it's a losing battle without radical changes in razor and blade design. Not in the old fashoned SE world. New blades (Twin Injector, Artist Club) bring different opportunities. But real progress is just in the hi-tech modern razors. Just to see the dozens of patent of Gillette in the last few decades. Blade, cartridge, head, handle, lubrificant, absorber, skin-tying fins, and so on ...
|
|
|
Post by brandaves on Dec 10, 2019 17:01:04 GMT -6
For the same feeling, I've searched this some years ago. All It's around money. (Devil's dung, with Saint Basil the Great) When started, unmentionable blade gave opportunity to people to not spend in barbershop. With money, industry produced some super-cheap razors. Shaving become democratic. One of the most iconic (not cheap at all for the time!!!) is called Model 195 because of the $1,95 price. Then in WWII contract with Army grew up health of that brand. And was normal to have that type as common in supermarket. Doing this, other better ways to shave was even less used and now known. Just forum geeks know that SE's and other shaving systems exist. With the same idea, I searched why heavy metals are so used. The same answer. What we see in the market is the natural consequence. Interestingly, Gillette refused to sell their razors for less than $5 while SE razors where a lot cheaper. Here is a very good read on the subject: chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2716&context=journal_articlesThanks so much for posting that article. I've downloaded it so that I can read the entire thing at my leisure. What I've read so far is very interesting...
|
|