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Post by mjclark on Dec 30, 2013 3:10:06 GMT -6
Thanks to the beautiful photos around here recently, I got inspired to acquire a Valet Autostrop and I've got what I believe to be a VB1 on its way. But how do the classifications work? I get that in the VB1 and VC1 the blade just slots in, whereas in the VB2 and VC2 there's a gate that closes over and the VB3 and VC3 have swivelling tabs.
But what's the differences between the VB1 and VC1 etc? Were the Bs and the Cs available at the same time, and what was the advantage of one over the other?
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norfolkdick
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Captain of the Razor Blades
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Post by norfolkdick on Dec 30, 2013 5:37:44 GMT -6
Thanks to the beautiful photos around here recently, I got inspired to acquire a Valet Autostrop and I've got what I believe to be a VB1 on its way. But how do the classifications work? I get that in the VB1 and VC1 the blade just slots in, whereas in the VB2 and VC2 there's a gate that closes over and the VB3 and VC3 have swivelling tabs. But what's the differences between the VB1 and VC1 etc? Were the Bs and the Cs available at the same time, and what was the advantage of one over the other? Greetings This little piece I wrote for another forum should help. Valet AutostropsRegards Dick.
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Post by mjclark on Dec 30, 2013 6:04:58 GMT -6
Thanks to the beautiful photos around here recently, I got inspired to acquire a Valet Autostrop and I've got what I believe to be a VB1 on its way. But how do the classifications work? I get that in the VB1 and VC1 the blade just slots in, whereas in the VB2 and VC2 there's a gate that closes over and the VB3 and VC3 have swivelling tabs. But what's the differences between the VB1 and VC1 etc? Were the Bs and the Cs available at the same time, and what was the advantage of one over the other? Greetings This little piece I wrote for another forum should help. Valet AutostropsRegards Dick. That's a very useful article which I've read before and which explains very well the differences in blade loading between types 1, 2 and 3 (slot, gate, and tabs respectively). But what are the physical differences between the "B" and "C" models? And were the "B"s and "C"s manufactured simultaneously.
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Post by PJGH on Dec 30, 2013 6:47:50 GMT -6
You can peruse a good variety here: www.stropper.com ... type in 'Valet' into the search box. Initially, I did not know about the VB range, thinking mine was a VC1 (slide in blade), but look at the handles as well. You'll see the pattern.
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norfolkdick
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Post by norfolkdick on Dec 30, 2013 6:59:58 GMT -6
Greetings This little piece I wrote for another forum should help. Valet AutostropsRegards Dick. That's a very useful article which I've read before and which explains very well the differences in blade loading between types 1, 2 and 3 (slot, gate, and tabs respectively). But what are the physical differences between the "B" and "C" models? And were the "B"s and "C"s manufactured simultaneously. Greetings I have never understood the way these Valets have been classified and nobody has ever been able to explain it to me. You will see that each classification seems to embrace all of the different style of blade loading which is the only real major difference between the models. The only person who could explain it is I suspect Robert Waite who I believe invented this system. He is a member here but hardly ever posts. Like most other makers Valet did not give many of their razors model numbers most they simply called the New Valet until they brought out another model and that then became the New Valet. To make matters worse these razors were made in USA UK and Canada and many more in the UK with French documentation for export. What I can tell you is that the very earliest models had a fixed handle then came the models with the short blade holder that will take modified GEM blades. Next were the models with the hinged blade loading gates and last the models with the 'ears' to hold the blade in place. The very last models of all had a safety bar which Valet called a runner guard this model also had 'ears'. None of this truly answers your question but from within my head that's as good as it gets. I am sure there are wiser members here who can add to this, part of the problem is that Valet razors spanned nearly 40 years with many changes but many of them really quite minor. If you have not already found the site the best place that I have found to view the models is Stropper.com :- here
Regards Dick.
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Post by mjclark on Dec 30, 2013 7:29:22 GMT -6
Thanks for your help. On the stropper.com site it says that the difference between B and C is that on the C model"Smooth bars replaced the two rollers in the lower stropping guide." I haven't got a clue what that means but it sounds like a minor variation in head design, possibly just different toolings from different manufacturing plants. Like with the Schicks, these externally imposed typologies, although incredibly useful and worthwhile, have a few problems because they do not follow the internal logic of the original manufacturers. I was also surprised to find out that Valet in Britain was at one time based on the Great West Road in Isleworth, right next to where I went to school 30 years ago! Thanks again for your help. Like schickology, clearly the science of valetology is still in its infancy but you are certainly one of the pioneers
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Post by mjclark on Dec 30, 2013 15:01:40 GMT -6
Update: by looking at that excellent article referenced in this thread, and then at stropper.com, the full picture is emerging. The only difference between the "B" and "C" models is that the mechanism through which the strop is fed at the back of the razor head has a lower roller in Model B and a lowsr smooth bar in Model C. The "B" and "C" designations are given by Valet themselves, and some boxes are marked "Model C" etc. Before 1920, the company was only named "Autostrop" and only the B model head was manufactured, and the blade simply slotted in and was held in place by tabs. Between 1922 and 1927, both B and C models were manufactured simultaneously (perhaps from different factories or at different price points). The blade simply slotted in- sideways in some heads and vertically in others -and this is the Type 1 which will take despined standard SE blades. Waites calls these slot loading 1922-1927 Valets VB1 and VC1. Between 1928 and 1935, both B and C models were manufactured simultaneously, but now with a folding gate to hold the blade in place. This is the Type 2 loading style. Waites calls these gate loading 1928-1935 Valets VB2 and VC2. Between 1935 and 1941, only the Model C head was manufactured, with the blade held in place by pivoting "ears." Waites calls these ear loading 1935-1941 Valets VC3. From 1941, the Model C head still had the pivoting ears but the open comb was replaced by a safety bar. Waites calls these ear loading safety bar post-1941 Valets VC4. So to summarise: B=head with upper and lower stropping rollers. C=head with upper roller and lower stropping bar. pre-1920: Autostrop Co. Model B head only. Type 1 blade loading: blade slots in. 1922-1927: Valet Autostrop Co. Models B and C heads. Type 1 blade loading: blade slots in. Waites VB1 and VC1. 1928-1935: Models B and C heads. Type 2 blade loading: blade secured by folding gate. Waites VB2 and VC2. 1935-1941: Model C head only. Type 3 blade loading: blade secured by pivoting ears. Waites VC3. post-1941: Model C head only. Type 3 blade loading: blade secured by pivoting ears. Open comb replaced by safety bar. Waites VC4. Whew!
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Post by PJGH on Dec 30, 2013 16:49:26 GMT -6
Invaluable! Thank you for summarising so concisely ... perhaps a mod can sticky this?
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ShadowsDad
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Post by ShadowsDad on Dec 31, 2013 0:38:36 GMT -6
IMO, the later models are also distinctly milder, for what that's worth. Not that any are what I would call aggressive.
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Post by mjclark on Dec 31, 2013 12:31:37 GMT -6
...My beautiful VB1 arrived this morning and it makes the differentiation between the B Model and the C Model very clear. In both models, the stropping mechanism has two rollers above the strop which cause the change in direction of the blade with the stropping motion. The lower strop guide, upon which the strop rests when it is fed through the mechanism is simply a fixed smooth bar in the C models whereas in the B models it too is a roller, as can clearly be seen in this photo: Attachments:
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Post by mjclark on Jan 3, 2014 5:57:08 GMT -6
Further update!: The B models (with rollers as the lower strop guide) are adjustable, as explicitly stated in the Autostrop literature. The blade gap can be varied by moving the blade release mechanism. The C models (with fixed bars as the lower strop guide) are not adjustable. So the VB1/VC1 and VB2/VC2 models ran concurrently offering the choice of adjustable or fixed heads until c.1935 when the adjustable B model heads were discontinued. It's worth noting that the Gillette Old Types were also explicitly marketed as adjustable razors (the blade gap is varied by loosening the handle) and Gillette dropped the adjustable concept with the advent of the NEW in c.1930.
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Post by HoosierTrooper on Jan 11, 2014 8:16:35 GMT -6
I haven't used a VAS in a long time so I decided to dust one off and use it this morning. I chose a VC4, the one with the Streamline Runner-Guard, and loaded it up with a fresh Feather blade and got a very good shave. Brian is right, the later ones, especially the VC4, do seem to be distinctly milder so I chose it to use the new Feather in first. Tomorrow I'll pick one of the older ones.
They are a lot of fun to use.
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Post by HoosierTrooper on Jan 12, 2014 10:24:45 GMT -6
Popped the same blade in a VC1 and got a less close shave than yesterday. The Feather blade felt like it had dulled a lot after just one shave, which seems to be normal for these in my experience.
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norfolkdick
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Post by norfolkdick on Jan 13, 2014 0:48:11 GMT -6
Popped the same blade in a VC1 and got a less close shave than yesterday. The Feather blade felt like it had dulled a lot after just one shave, which seems to be normal for these in my experience. Greetings This mirrors my experience exactly, one great shave and one OK shave and thats it...bin! Regards Dick.
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RocketMan
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Post by RocketMan on Jan 13, 2014 0:54:48 GMT -6
Popped the same blade in a VC1 and got a less close shave than yesterday. The Feather blade felt like it had dulled a lot after just one shave, which seems to be normal for these in my experience. Greetings This mirrors my experience exactly, one great shave and one OK shave and thats it...bin! Regards Dick. Same. That first shave can be pretty sweet though. An expensive once in a while treat for me.
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