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Post by fram773 on Mar 25, 2014 13:38:31 GMT -6
I was reading a forum wiki on a certain kind of forbidden razors. The author claimed carbon steel is able to "sing" more and contort to one's face due to greater flexibility. I did think the Treets were more flexible than the stainless steel GEM's but I wasn't sure if it was in my head and now this further cements my belief. Blade rigidity is something I've come to appreciate coming in from lesser razors but my thoughts were, is some blade flex a good thing? For me shaving with the nub-less MMOC I pretty much have to have Treets in it. It seems harsh and inefficient with the GEMs. The nubbed CP feels smooth with the SS GEMs. Other than the closed comb the CP's head looks identical. Now I am currently waiting for a nubbed chrome MMOC to confirm my suspicions... I'm a nerd and test the build quality of my razors. One such way I did is by seeing how tightly the blade is held. There is a blade loaded in the picture I've attached. But it is held so well and the tolerances are so good the blade looks invisible. I pressed down on the blade. Just as I thought. No give whatsoever. Lots of give on a GEM Junior and slight give on the CP- no doubt because of the nubs. Gentlemen, I think this may be one reason for a lot of the hate directed towards the MMOC.
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ShadowsDad
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None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Mar 25, 2014 21:31:31 GMT -6
Maybe. Or maybe they just like to hate things that can't hate back.
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RocketMan
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Post by RocketMan on Mar 26, 2014 8:21:57 GMT -6
I wonder if there would be measurable blade 'give' differences with these SE blades in different frames or if the blades are sufficiently sturdy that with regular shave pressure, there would be no give.
My ill thought response would be to think that there would be no difference. This is a very good point to ponder though and interesting/new food for thought!
thnx for posting (I'm gonna be pushing on blades for the next few days)
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Post by fram773 on Mar 26, 2014 10:23:58 GMT -6
I wonder if there would be measurable blade 'give' differences with these SE blades in different frames or if the blades are sufficiently sturdy that with regular shave pressure, there would be no give. My ill thought response would be to think that there would be no difference. This is a very good point to ponder though and interesting/new food for thought! thnx for posting (I'm gonna be pushing on blades for the next few days) i want to clarify, I pressed down on the blade with my finger don't try it with your face.
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RocketMan
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Welcome To The Sharp Side!
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Post by RocketMan on Mar 26, 2014 19:27:46 GMT -6
Thanks I did ok with that part. But aren't you indicating that people might experience these razors differently because of differences in blade flex?
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Post by fram773 on Mar 26, 2014 20:45:44 GMT -6
Thanks I did ok with that part. But aren't you indicating that people might experience these razors differently because of differences in blade flex? Yes. Considering that stainless steel is harder and has less blade flex than carbon steel, my thoughts are that the choice affects the usage of the nubless MMOC (which holds the blade very firmly). I know that the nubbed CP and MMOC don't hold the blade as well and that would most likely translate to a different feel (more blade flex and less harsh in my case). So I pose this question to members, do you notice a difference between: Nubbed MMOC/SS blade VS Nubless MMOC/SS blade Nubless MMOC/SS Blade VS Nubless MMOC/Carbon blade
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Post by birdlives on Mar 28, 2014 2:00:46 GMT -6
Maybe. Or maybe they just like to hate things that can't hate back. LMAO!!!! SD you killin me over here! This is new food for thought....hmmmm, I see that the 1924 Shovelheaded Lovely, has it's own form of nubs...I'd say whatever tension or angle they put on the blade is just about perfect...So check that one out for flex, that ones the Gold-Standard in my shave-cave...
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Post by fram773 on Jun 6, 2014 15:30:06 GMT -6
So I got around to testing the differences. I expected the nubbed MMOC to have the same amount of give in the blade as the CP but it is much stiffer. Not sure why that it is because other than the comb design the heads look identical. So in order of stiffness: MMOC (nub-less)> MMOC (nubbed)> MMCP
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Post by PJGH on Jun 6, 2014 16:20:15 GMT -6
I'm fast getting to the point that I just can't get a bad shave out of anything ...
I can pick up an Trac-II, a Twinjector, a Schick E, an MMOC, a 1912, a Clemak, a Streamline or even ... GOOD GOD, a DE and get a shave out of it with pretty much any blade dropped in. I have to say, I'm finding the whole lot so closely packed together that I'm hard pushed to find a difference.
Unless it's a Durham Duplex or a Rolls Razor or a 1912. Now they are different and guarantee good shaves.
I've not yet had enough experience of carbon steel versus stainless but our man Norfolk Dick sent me some interesting SE blades to play with, so I guess I'll see how I go.
Very interesting read, though. I am very curious as to how different blades play, but I know from DE shaving that vintage to stainless to teflon to platinum coated, I don't see a huge difference. Perhaps it more a case of operator feel - you get a sense of the blade from the first stroke and modify behaviour accordingly?
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Post by fram773 on Jun 6, 2014 17:04:44 GMT -6
Id be interested to hear your impressions PJGH. I definitely find the carbon blades to be different. Much more than the difference between the different brands of stainless blades.They do seem to "sing" more- an effect magnified on the 1924 and 1912-types. For me they are essential on the MMOC as it makes it much smoother but for the rest of the razors I've used them with- their upkeep and longevity (or lack of) isn't worth it IMO.
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Post by mjclark on Jun 6, 2014 17:46:59 GMT -6
I much prefer carbon steel under all conditions - even carbon steel injector and DE blades. It shaves very differently to stainless for me and leaves my skin feeling fantastic and well conditioned. Also the older blades actually had a hollow ground edge like straights, and the carbon blades settle in over time getting smoother with use. There's definitely a difference not only in grind but also in steel composition of those older carbon blades. I have some NOS Micromatic blades and they knock the socks off the modern blades!
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Post by fram773 on Jun 6, 2014 18:26:03 GMT -6
I much prefer carbon steel under all conditions - even carbon steel injector and DE blades. It shaves very differently to stainless for me and leaves my skin feeling fantastic and well conditioned. Also the older blades actually had a hollow ground edge like straights, and the carbon blades settle in over time getting smoother with use. There's definitely a difference not only in grind but also in steel composition of those older carbon blades. I have some NOS Micromatic blades and they knock the socks off the modern blades! I have some NOS Micromatic blades too but I'm not convinced the tetanus is worth it. Well you reminded me of this blog I found. I have posted a thread on it: theoriginalsafetytoo.proboards.com/thread/1421/using-vintage-carbon-steel-blades
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Post by mjclark on Jun 6, 2014 23:50:34 GMT -6
Interesting blog. And don't fear NOS blades ! Some of the blades might require palm stropping and of course avoid obvious corrosion but it is an experience notably different from modern blades and not to be missed Norfolkdick kindly sent me a couple of 1920s GEM Double Life blades and the shave from them was not initially as close as from a modern blade but lasted well over 48 hours!
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Post by mos6502 on Jun 28, 2014 2:55:34 GMT -6
Carbon steel doesn't have to be flexible. Coincidentally I learned yesterday that Valet blades will crack into pieces instead of bend if you try to bend them! It all depends on the tempering of the steel. Anything used in a DE razor will have to be well tempered for springiness in order to be inserted into the razor in the first place without permanently bending, creasing, or cracking. So for those things - there is likely no real difference between stainless and carbon blades. On the other hand, for SEs - blades could be conceivably tempered to any degree the factory engineers see fit. In any event the spine of the blade definitely adds rigidity regardless of the temper of the blade itself, so I suspect there may not be much difference in practice between tempers.
I'm also a bit curious about this nubless MMOC... I've seen a lot of MMs where the blade stops have broken cleanly off, but I feel like none would ever have left the factory this way simply because SE blades don't have rounded corners, they need something to protect the user's skin from the possibility of being scratched by the square edges of the blades.
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Post by HoosierTrooper on Jun 28, 2014 5:24:48 GMT -6
I'm also a bit curious about this nubless MMOC... I've seen a lot of MMs where the blade stops have broken cleanly off, but I feel like none would ever have left the factory this way simply because SE blades don't have rounded corners, they need something to protect the user's skin from the possibility of being scratched by the square edges of the blades. He isn't referring to the blade stops, he's talking about the two small bumps on the blade tray that the blade rests on. Some open comb Micromatics, believed to be the very first ones made, don't have them so the blade lays perfectly flat, which changes the blade angle slightly.All of the Clog pruf and the Bullet Tip/Flying Wing seem to have the two bumps.
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