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Post by GarnerPW on Sept 16, 2017 17:03:22 GMT -6
I have seen others talk about 1912, 1914, 1924 and Damaskeene. I have only seen a couple people talk about the Brooklyn. Now I know I have 1 as I have been told by a reliable source but the question is what makes a Brooklyn a Brooklyn? Is it like the Damaskeene, in that it has to have it stamped on the inside? From the looking I have done on the forums which is not a lot if the true be told the 1912 was made by no less than 3 different razor companies from 1912 all the way through 1947 if not later. Now I have stated on my SOTD posting that I believe that the razor I am using is may be another Brooklyn. birdlives has told me to post pictures and let the people here to chime in and let me know what I have. The next question is what makes a '14 a '14 or a '24 a '24? Thanks for your feed back.
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Post by birdlives on Sept 16, 2017 18:01:20 GMT -6
OK, let's see......It is a Brooklyn...Any razor that has Brooklyn printed in it is in fact a Brooklyn. Now ASR made thousands of razors in that plant, so we look for other details to differenciate the various models. When Billy called your other razor a Brooklyn, it was to differenciate it from the earlier GEM Cutlery Co. NY razors. In 1919 When GEM and Ever Ready joined to form ASR they changed the printing and by 1921 they dropped the Damaskeene blade advertisement in the razor entirely. And started just calling them GEM on the back and had Brooklyn NY printed inside.
Now there seems to be almost countless variations on a 1912 theme going on...But to put it simply...I would think (and bare with me here, as thinking doesn't come easily for me) that this one is after 1921 because of the lack of any Damaskeene reference. But not very long after 1921 because it has the Damaskeene handle, actually looks very much like the ER1914 handle....could be the handle is not original or both were made at the same plant at the same time, and have the same thread size which was different from later 1912'ssooo....That handle is almost certainly the old size threads that fit the ER1914, the Damaskeenes and some very eary Brooklyn 1912s....And then there is the top plate. Looks from some angles to be the curved top plate...Actually doesn't matter....The clincher here...is the handle threads So I'm thinking this is a transitional model which was labeled GEM Brooklyn but was made at the sametime as the last Damaskeenes...
So my guess is a GEM 1912, Brooklyn model circa 1921-23....
Now hopefully someone who really knows about this stuff will chime in and have more specifics....But til that time.....I wanted to give you something to work with....
I would also guess that it shaves as good as the later Dammys, which are some of my all time favorite shavers.....AND that would make you a lucky man my friend...enjoy every stroke!!
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Post by GarnerPW on Sept 16, 2017 18:57:22 GMT -6
OK, let's see......It is a Brooklyn...Any razor that has Brooklyn printed in it is in fact a Brooklyn. Now ASR made thousands of razors in that plant, so we look for other details to differenciate the various models. When Billy called your other razor a Brooklyn, it was to differenciate it from the earlier GEM Cutlery Co. NY razors. In 1919 When GEM and Ever Ready joined to form ASR they changed the printing and by 1921 they dropped the Damaskeene blade advertisement in the razor entirely. And started just calling them GEM on the back and had Brooklyn NY printed inside. Now there seems to be almost countless variations on a 1912 theme going on...But to put it simply...I would think (and bare with me here, as thinking doesn't come easily for me) that this one is after 1921 because of the lack of any Damaskeene reference. But not very long after 1921 because it has the Damaskeene handle, actually looks very much like the ER1914 handle....could be the handle is not original or both were made at the same plant at the same time, and have the same thread size which was different from later 1912'ssooo..mute point...And then there is the curved top plate. Now some of the later Damaskeenes had the newer beveled edge top plates which this one doesn't. So I'm thinking this is a transitional model which was labeled GEM Brooklyn but was made at the sametime as the last Damaskeenes... So my guess is a GEM 1912, Brooklyn model circa 1921-23.... Now hopefully someone who really knows about this stuff will chime in and have more specifics....But til that time.....I wanted to give you something to work with.... I would also guess that it shaves as good as the later Dammys, which are some of my all time favorite shavers.....AND that would make you a lucky man my friend...enjoy every stroke!! First let me say thank you sir for your feed back Bird. Second, when you mentioned the handle looking the same as the Damaskeene I went and tried it on my two Dammys. It did not fit either one. Then I took the handle off the other Brooklyn. The other handle fit the heads of the Dammys. I have now also ordered Waits books. I should get them in about 2-3 weeks.
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Post by birdlives on Sept 16, 2017 19:04:20 GMT -6
Were the threads of this razor too big to fit your Damaskeenes ? Because, I'm thinking thats a handle from a Ever Ready 1914....but that would fit your Dammys....
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Post by GarnerPW on Sept 16, 2017 19:08:14 GMT -6
Were the threads of this razor too big to fit your Damaskeenes ? Because, I'm thinking thats a handle from a Ever Ready 1914....but that would fit your Dammys.... Why yes. Yes they were.?
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Post by birdlives on Sept 16, 2017 19:13:31 GMT -6
This head actually looks like one of the GEM, Brooklyn 1912 travel set razors...and they used the smaller threads, so a ER 1914 handle would fit them aswell... Check it out....Isn't this your handle? This is my 1914. 2nd pic is just the handle...If thats your handle....then it has the old threads...maybe something has happened to damage the threads so they don't fir your Dammys...So check it out...maybe I am mistaken and yours has a different handle...But to my eye..this is the handle on your GEM 1912 ....
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Post by birdlives on Sept 16, 2017 20:02:25 GMT -6
Well...I guess I'm just wrong....Can happen....I was wrong once back in 1956, it could happen again.... So if the hole for the handle fits the handles with the larger threads....meaning larger than your Dammys...Then the razor is probably after 1923... It's Brooklyn, so after 1919....and larger threads so after 1923.....and it's a GEM 1912 so before 1930.... And it has the shorter neck so probably from a travel set.....I've never seen that type of handle with the larger threads....ANYONE HERE KNOW ABOUT THIS HANDLE.... I know the GEMs made with the larger threads did not use handles with this type of knurling.....I'm out of my league on this handle....I don't think it's possible to take a 1914 handle and make the threads bigger...I've heard off taking a newer handle with larger threads and making them smaller....hmm, must be a factory job....Even the later 1914 handles didn't use that older style of knurling.... COME ON GUYS...WERE THERE ANY OF THESE OLD STYLE HANDLES WITH THE LARGER THREADS??
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Post by wchnu on Sept 16, 2017 20:12:51 GMT -6
I am not a go to guy on dating these razors. I know that strange things show up at times. I also agree that Brooklyn is not a model like damaskeene. It is just the plant location. These things were made so long that I never have been able to sort it out. They all shave great. This one does look like a travel set version. I have a few that I will check out and see of they look like this.
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Post by Petrvs on Sept 17, 2017 0:08:33 GMT -6
COME ON GUYS...WERE THERE ANY OF THESE OLD STYLE HANDLES WITH THE LARGER THREADS?? Not that I know of... besides, this is the first time I see that handle on a 1912-type head, I always associated it with the 1914 or the Damaskeenes. But Fuzzy's right: strange things show up at times, and we have learnt from several discoveries on this wonderful place we call TOST, that various transition models were produced in GEM/Ever Ready's history, so this could easily be one of them.
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RocketMan
Gem Star
RazorAddict
Welcome To The Sharp Side!
Posts: 4,167
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Post by RocketMan on Sept 17, 2017 18:43:00 GMT -6
I tried to get it all down at one point in time, and I fancied myself as a knowledgeable guy on such stuff. But, between a sketchy memory, and all the endless variations of this style, and all the nicknames and chatter about them, I can barely tell a scratched one from a shiny one now!! I think the Bird nailed down most of it pretty darn good though. Nicely done Bird. And, if you know any more please add it in, don't be chicken now! (Besides, the guy ain't made a mistake since 1956!! Or was it 57 BL? )
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Post by birdlives on Sept 17, 2017 19:41:33 GMT -6
Actually once in '56 and once again in '58.....I was young and careless......};^)) Could happen again,,.I feel another careless streak coming on.....
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Post by wchnu on Sept 17, 2017 22:37:40 GMT -6
Actually once in '56 and once again in '58.....I was young and careless......};^)) Could happen again,,.I feel another careless streak coming on..... Ahhh over 10 years before I was born. Just saying....
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Post by GarnerPW on Sept 18, 2017 4:50:39 GMT -6
Thank you guys.I now know that it is indeed a Brooklyn and what makes it a Brooklyn. It is a little less important on the time thing as they were made for so long and I don't have the case which would have helped figure out the date a little better.
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Post by birdlives on Sept 19, 2017 0:41:15 GMT -6
Garner....Thats a GEM 1912 from a travel set.....I have never seen a handle like that on a 1912.... But I really like how it looks! I would think that handle would really transmit the vibrations from the razor...Does it? It's a keeper ! It's funny, I shaved with my GEM Junior G3 WWII Military issue 1912, that Fuzzy laid on me....That one was made in Brooklyn too, ha,ha...So they made a ton of different razors at that plant...and they were probably all great shavers...
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Post by birdlives on Sept 19, 2017 0:49:56 GMT -6
Actually once in '56 and once again in '58.....I was young and careless......};^)) Could happen again,,.I feel another careless streak coming on..... Ahhh over 10 years before I was born. Just saying.... Wow......How in the World did you become so wise and experienced, in so few years ? ya whipper-snapper...
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