Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on Jan 6, 2019 8:17:58 GMT -6
When you say or think of a razor as being “aggressive”, what does that mean to you? Is it blade feel, efficiency (stubble reduction), likelihood of being bitten? Do you think of it in terms of a baseline razor (i.e., one you’ve used that is sort of average, or very mild, or very aggressive)? Or maybe you don’t ever use or believe that term is useful?
When I think about describing my experience with a razor, I always feel like I should comment on whether I found it mild or aggressive. But I’ve been struggling with the “aggression” term. Efficiency and blade feel don’t really say “aggressive” to me, so I think of those things as separate from the mild-aggressive category. One formal definition of the word (as defined by the Oxford dictionary) is “hostile or violent behaviour”, and in shaving I’ve sort of thought of it more as “potential to cause damage, if not controlled”. So if someone says THAT is an aggressive razor, I pay close attention to my technique and I’m more careful with it.
The inverse of aggressive to me is mild, so I do think of it as a continuum and not a single point. But if that’s the case, then perhaps I don’t have enough experience with different razors to really gauge aggression. I haven’t really used a razor yet that wasn’t well behaved as long as I paid attention to what I’m doing. I’ve heard folks say they think the Micromatic is an “aggressive” razor, but I don’t think of it that way. I guess the one razor I’ve used that I think of as aggressive is my Schick E2. I was pretty careless with it the first time I used it -- and it’s possible the blade was damaged during the injection process -- the result was a shave with a bit of blood and a lot of irritation. I ultimately felt like that razor had great capacity for “violent behaviour”, unless and until I paid close attention to pressure and angle.
So far I’ve netted out that in the mildness-to-aggression scale, the most aggressive razor would be a sharpened piece of steel with a handle (pre-SE razors) -- there are no “protections” (i.e., guards, angle guides, etc), it is the user and the blade. The least aggressive (or mild) would be an idiot-proofed razor that you would have to work at it to really hurt yourself with it -- for me that would be plastic garbage unmentionables. I guess at the moment, aggression is an indicator of how spot-on my technique needs to be with a razor in order to not be “bitten”.
What say you all?
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Post by ordinaryshaver on Jan 6, 2019 8:46:42 GMT -6
Careful here, you may have opened Pandora's box.
Agressive vs Mild is a discussion that is often filled with hyperbole and myth. However, once again I will echo the sentiment of Fuzzy, "technique trumps tools" so more times than not, what someone considers agressive could be the razor, but more often than not, it is the user.
Is a stock car fast and dangerous, yes, but to a professional driver, a car that we see as fast, he may not. It is all purely based on personal experience and technique.
I think most folks consider "agression" to be the amount of blade feel, in conjunction with the blade gap and stubble reduction. However, if you are basing how fast a horse can run, against how fast Jell-O can run, you have no baseline. It is arbitrary at best. What may be agressive to you, may be mid or mild to someone else. I consider agression to be how efficiently the razor can cut the hair. Now, having said that, if you take a slant unmentionable vs a regular both with the same balde gap, does the slant cut hair any better than the regular? Again completely subjective according to the user.
I compare all my raozrs to my FW. It is what I honestly my skill on and is my baseline. As I state in today's video, I prefer blade feel. I like to know where the blade is, and I can tell if I have a bad angle by how much or how little I feel.
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Jan 6, 2019 9:23:05 GMT -6
I have always thought of an aggressive razor as having a much wider acceptable angle of attack to make the shave easier and also to give a closer shave easily. Many times this means a larger blade gap and a relaxation of safety features. I also like blade feel which an aggressive razor gives. A mild razor has none of that and IMO is harder to use due to the narrow angle of attack they generally have. Mild razors are that way because safety is pushed to the forefront. As I was told many decades ago by a salesman at a drugstore, "A safety razor (we were discussing beginner razors) limits the gouge to just 1/8".". Mild razors limit it to much less.
The most aggressive razors are something like a Rolls or a SE with the comb removed (what they're called escapes me at the moment*) with absolutely 100% blade exposure and no safety features whatsoever. In theory anyway they can gouge right to the gums.
*Edit: The word is SEvette.
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Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on Jan 6, 2019 10:40:28 GMT -6
Careful here, you may have opened Pandora's box. Agressive vs Mild is a discussion that is often filled with hyperbole and myth. Yeah, I was hesitant to bring it up for just those reasons, but so far, so good. The two responses so far (you and ShadowsDad) have been just what I was hoping for: thoughtful and insightful comments that have already expanded my understanding of the topic. Here's hoping this thread continues down this path....
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Post by ordinaryshaver on Jan 6, 2019 12:52:42 GMT -6
I tend to be of the opinion that the better ones technique is, the more they will like an "agressive" razor. I do, I like to feel the blade, it gives me a sensory definition of where the blade is, what angle it runs on and how much if any pressure I am applying to said razor.
I am also of the opinion that aggression of razors is more predominant in the unmentionable realm. What I mean is, take any of the adjustables, or the name brands that are marketed as aggressive. The slant style razors also come to mind. I am hard pressed to find a SE razor that has the adjustability, there may be one but I've not heard of it. That's why I think they a outside of our "realm".
The idea of aggression is purely subjective. What one calls it is not the same as anothers, and while using a baseline may work for one, it doesn't work for the other. Just my simple thoughts on the matter
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Jan 6, 2019 13:23:22 GMT -6
There was an adjustable SE discussed on this forum quite some time ago. At least I think it was on this forum.
When I was paying attention to such things on other forums I saw aggressiveness in a SE razor mostly mentioned in regards to the MMs and almost always the OC. There are a LOT of OCs "out there" making them easy to find and they are fairly inexpensive. I think what was happening was that noobs to SE razors would find one and try it just to test themselves since it has a reputation. I think the rep' was self perpetuating simply by noobs trying with less than great technique, and how many folks today blame themselves? So it just had to be the razor*. It's been said here already, it's not so much gear as it is technique. But a noob to most SE razors with less than great technique? That's just a disaster waiting to happen. Of course that's only my opinion.
Moving back and forth from unmentionables to SE? Well, the techniques are different and that again just sets up a noob for failure. But I must also state that I learned to tolerate a blade with huge exposure in the thin bladed world where I think it's more difficult to learn because of the thin blades. Once I could use it w/o blood, and I worked my way up since it was an adjustable, I knew I could pretty much use anything and did. Both in SE and in the other realm.
*I give Poppi huge credit for using a razor that wasn't working for him and instead of going back and forth or blaming the razor he used it for a week and figured it out. I didn't mention it in his post but I am now.
Sorry to take the thread off topic.
Let's return to our regular scheduled thread. (to steal that from TV)
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mlb549
Lather Catcher
Posts: 686
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Post by mlb549 on Jan 6, 2019 13:26:03 GMT -6
When I feel a razor is aggressive, usually I do not have the cap flat against my face. Sometimes I get distracted or in a hurry(not good planning) and allow my technique to lax. No fault of the razor. All of my SE's shave well, some will bite and some won't---again not the fault of the razor, but I don't call any of them aggressive.
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Flintstone
Lather Catcher
Scraper Blade Shaver...
Posts: 908
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Post by Flintstone on Jan 6, 2019 14:10:31 GMT -6
I almost got my hands on a Superman (pat'd 1913) adjustable SE. From what I could tell, the blade gap would widen/tighten based on how tight you screwed in the handle. Looked interesting, and I made a play for it, but it's apparently reasonably rare and it hit a level I wasn't prepared to pay. I like the blade feel as well, and I gravitated toward the older (the older the better) unmentionables -- as well as the unique ones (i.e., slants). I cut my teeth (and sometimes face) on those before discovering SE's, and perhaps that helped. My first use of the Micromatic (OC) was so uneventful and produced such awe-inspiring results, I thought I must be some kind of idiot-savant-shaver . It's reputation by some seemed to border on fear-mongering....it has taught me to explore a razor for myself and not rely solely on other folks experience. I'm in complete agreement with the consensus that technique trumps the tool. I know that one's experience with a tool is different based on their level of skill/technique, but some tools require more dedication or learned skill/technique to make the experience successful. A great example of that was Poppi's story of demonstrated fortitude and ultimate mastery of the tool, rather than the proverbial blaming of the tool and walking away. I also really liked Brian's articulation of angle and safety features (or lack there of) in helping to define a tool's innate (or potential) "aggressiveness". It's one of the reasons I'm really looking forward to trying a lather catcher -- I managed to pick up a few up during a road-trip buying spree over the holidays -- based on the look of many of them, I am imagining a decent amount of blade feel, and a solid technique (angle, pressure, lather) to be de rigueur. Great comments everyone, thank you for putting your thoughts forward.
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Post by wchnu on Jan 7, 2019 9:12:36 GMT -6
Aggressive razors have a lot of blade feel to me. I love it. When I was newer to this there were a lot of very aggressive razors. I found out that once I learned to use the tools it was not that big a deal at all. Now I am veddy much a fan of the feel of a blade. I have a early Schick E2 that is a monster with the blade feel. Love it... I also have a G8 that is much the same. It is all about angle and pressure. The mighty MM has a reputation for biting if not handled properly. It is a well deserved rep. But when used properly it is a joy to shave with.
So I guess to me Aggression is blade feel and the thought that a slip could bring blood!
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