ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on May 23, 2015 21:32:59 GMT -6
Yes, it is the scary sharp method, taken to extremes.
That's the way I did it Bob. No pressure applied or you won't get a sharp edge and be gentle when flipping it. Be sure to use a lubricant; check my thread, just check the last page or 2 for the synopsis. There's no need to read the entire thread. At least that's what I remember about the thread. It's been awhile since it was written.
Depending on the blade you might need some "coarse" wet or dry paper to set the angle as I did in the thread. But that angle is controlled by the spine of the blade and the edge you're sharpening. After setting the angle all of what happens after that is polishing the scratches out and making them smaller and smaller. So take pains with the setting of the angle. That must be right before moving to the next finer grit or you'll just be wasting your time since the finer grits remove almost nothing, they just polish out imperfections in the scratches.
The only difference between the Rolls and a wedge blade is that you won't use a jig for the final honing and maintenance. I have no idea how you'd strop it. Can't help there. I guess you'd use a wedge handle and strop, but I'm out of my league there. Someone who knows will need to walk you through it. I can only guess and you don't want that.
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spidey9
Lather Catcher
All SE all the time!
Posts: 641
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Post by spidey9 on May 23, 2015 22:47:31 GMT -6
Thanks Brian - that's extremely helpful. Regarding a lubricant, most of the straight razor threads and videos use water. Comments like yours regarding setting the angle properly before moving to finer grit pop up repeatedly in the straight razor honing threads that I've been reading. My coarsest (is that even a word?) lapping film is 30 micron - is that coarse enough to set the angle on a blade that is not in too rough shape? As for stropping the blades, I've got that covered: This 1889 Star Kampfe "Stropping Machine" is built like a tank and perfectly functional. Coupled with a modern Illinois Strop, I think it should do the job. --Bob
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Post by mjclark on May 24, 2015 0:12:25 GMT -6
Great thread! And beautiful wedge blades! Like Brian has said, just lay the blades flat and flip them. No need for any honing tool. Attach the film to the tile with water but use mineral oil for a bit of lubrication when honing the prone-to-corrosion carbon steel. The single most important thing is SET THE BEVEL. This means getting the edges of the blade to meet at a width smaller than the gap between the platelets in a hair (so that it will cut hair). Around 1000 grit is right for bevel setting and it's just as easy here to use a coarse synthetic stone as lapping film - though lapping film will work wonderfully. You will know when the bevel is set because the blade will then pop arm hairs and also pass the Thumb Nail Test (TNT) - the blade will bite into a wet thumbnail when it is drawn across. If the bevel is not yet set, then the blade will just slide across the wet nail, not bite. To speed bevel setting, you can lift the spine of the blade very slightly or tape it with electrical tape, increasing the attitude of the edge to the surface, but I prefer not to. Depending on the steel and the state of the edge, setting the bevel can take minutes or hours but it is the ESSENTIAL FOUNDATION of honing - once the bevel has been set, it's all jam after that Move through the lapping film progression - you will know when you are done on each grade as the feel of the blade will change as you hone when it is ready, especially if you are using mineral oil as you will feel a suction on the film. And finish on the 1.0u or 0.3u. The latter will leave the blade scarily sharp QED but also harsh - it will settle in with shaving and stropping, and many people put a piece of wet paper under the 0.3u film when honing to mitigate the harshness. Brian has all this covered clearly and skilkfully in his Rolls thread. And enjoy - honing is like cooking. It's where science and art meet, and opens up the world of OEM blades. It's fascinating and satisfying and you'll soon want to start experimenting further. I'm still really happy to hone anyone's blades for them, but doing it yourself will take you into the fourth dimension of SE shaving.
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Post by IschiaPP on May 24, 2015 8:44:28 GMT -6
... just lay the blades flat and flip them. No need for any honing tool. But I do not want to hone the spine ... and without any tool both spine and edge will be "eaten". I've tried with my first wedge. ...lapping film - though lapping film will work wonderfully. Yes, I know. www.ilrasoio.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2469... increasing the attitude of the edge to the surface, but I prefer not to. Me too, I prefer "nude look" honing. Brian has all this covered clearly and skilkfully in his Rolls thread. I've read one more time, but It's not so clear. And enjoy - honing is like cooking. It's where science and art meet, and opens up the world of OEM blades. I love honing. It's ... as I call It ... my antistress "Hone Therapy". If you like state of art in scientific point of view about honing, look at scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/... you'll soon want to start experimenting further. I love find my way, doing experience in all direction. This is only the last one in the big razor world. ... doing it yourself will take you into the fourth dimension of SE shaving. I agree in full with You, Mark mjclark. Just one question: what tool to hone Wilkinson Sword Empire 7 Day Set??
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Post by mjclark on May 24, 2015 9:55:07 GMT -6
If you don't want spine wear from honing, you'll have to tape the spine for setting the bevel, but I would remove it for the rest of the progression.
And for Empire blades (although they are narrower so it's more tricky) exactly the same as Rolls and other wedge blades, or use the Pall Mall set or Kampfe stropping handle if you have one. Magic!
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Post by IschiaPP on May 24, 2015 10:28:56 GMT -6
... or use the Pall Mall set or Kampfe stropping handle But I need to hone, not just to strop. I mean bevel setting and little restore for a couple of blade.
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on May 24, 2015 10:55:11 GMT -6
Bevel setting and restoring is handled by the scary sharp system the way I did it, unless you want to buy stones it would be the best way for you too. Bevel setting is done with the first coarse grit, after that it's just polishing. You aren't going to be using any pressure, so you won't wear the spine appreciably. The only thing done with the spine is to push the blade forward, there will be a finger on the edge of the blade, but that uses just enough "pressure" to keep it in contact with the abrasive.
To remove rust and such I used 1500 grit paper. Go easy, the edge is probably still sharp, and now it'll be rusty as well. If it's pitted I have no idea how you'd handle that. Probably live with it unless it's on the edge. Then it would need to be "ground" out using a very coarse grit. Pitting on the edge can't stay there.
Sorry if I didn't make what I did understandable. I suggest you google "scary sharp system" and check it out else where. What you find will be more for woodworking, but it should give the gist of the system. Maybe then go back after getting a basic grasp and reread the thread. The only way we have to teach is through this medium of the written word. Possibly there are YouTube videos that cover what you want? I never looked. Let us know what you find.
If you have any specific questions I'll try to help. But I can't rewrite the thread I already wrote once.
There is another way to get sharp blades... send them to Marcus. He has offered to sharpen blades for anyone free of charge, you just pay shipping. That's a good deal. But you'll learn nothing other than his address that way.
Gotta run!
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Post by IschiaPP on May 24, 2015 11:57:26 GMT -6
The only thing done with the spine is to push the blade forward, there will be a finger on the edge of the blade, but that uses just enough "pressure" to keep it in contact with the abrasive. Brian, as in my previous post, I know honing. I've started with lapping films ... some years ago ... and now I prefer natural stones I have. My issue is not how to hone, but the tool to use. Normally, with other Lather Catcher, there is something to hold the wedge ... so is honed as a straight razor. First time I tried without, and I've damaged the spine. Maybe at that time I had not skills enough. I'll give a try ... but I'm not sure. The only way we have to teach is through this medium of the written word. In a large discussion there's also a specific link to point the asked detail. There is another way to get sharp blades... send them to Marcus. As written above ... I prefer hone myself my blades. And this is not my first post: IschiaPP@google
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on May 24, 2015 12:39:10 GMT -6
Ahh, finally understanding sinks into me.
:-) Sorry, I can't help you.
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Post by mjclark on May 25, 2015 1:01:33 GMT -6
Use your hands, tape the spine for bevel set or lift the spine slightly. Or use Pall Mall/Kampfe stropping handle as a holder for honing the blades. That's it...
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Post by kcb5150 on May 30, 2015 22:47:06 GMT -6
The spine on the star wedge relative to the height of the blade is too thin to have an ideal bevel angle without boosting the spine a bit. Funny enough, on my comfort lather catcher that was a 1:1 duplicate of the original kampfe I think and it came with a star blade, when I calculated the bevel angle adding in the width of the stropping attachment when on the spine, it fell in the optimal bevel angle range. I calculated for one layer of .007" electrical tape above and beyond that to protect the stropping handle and it still fell in range so I honed the star blade in the stropping handle with one layer of tape over that. shapton glass 600 to kill the chips, then I took off the foil edge it created, followed by 1k, rouge du salm on slurry to water, coticule, light slurry to water, escher light slurry to water. 30 linen/75 leather on the strop. It was scary sharp. Very good steel.
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Post by kcb5150 on May 30, 2015 22:49:02 GMT -6
Somewhere on coticule.be bart torfs has an excel based bevel calculation tool. you just need to launch it in a spreadsheet program and fill in the values.
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Post by kcb5150 on May 30, 2015 22:52:16 GMT -6
If this is all very new to you, I would recommend an inexpensive 1k as your bevel setting hone and lapping films to develop the edge once you have the bevel. If you don't have a leather strop, you can strop on newspaper.
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Post by kcb5150 on May 30, 2015 22:55:16 GMT -6
I will warn you, a wedge maxed out will ruin the spined blades for you. DE blades too for that matter... No mass produced blade can sniff a properly honed blade in any department.
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fergie
Shave Master
Posts: 122
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Post by fergie on May 31, 2015 6:57:29 GMT -6
Hi Folks what a wonderful thread, just what I am looking for to start my Wedge Blade Journey....I am totally ignorant to some of the language that is getting used here, but I will pay attention to what's being said and hopefully find my way.....I have heard a few folks saying that shaving with a Wedge Blade will spoil my other SEs for me.....So be it..... Fantastic.... Billy
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