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Post by polishaver on Dec 23, 2017 14:52:49 GMT -6
Semogue boar for me, followed closely by finest badger I love the looks of that Semogue! I just transferred my 830 into a Rubberset 203 handle
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Post by wchnu on Dec 23, 2017 15:02:06 GMT -6
I love the looks of that Semogue! I just transferred my 830 into a Rubberset 203 handle Wow. That handle pops!
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Dec 23, 2017 15:59:41 GMT -6
I may have written this before, if so please forgive me.
I have a modest collection of 30 some odd brushes and they all do a superlative job lathering. But the base fibers work differently. The reason for high end brushes is the hand work that goes into them. Not just anyone can make a good handmade brush. Too, if it's natural fiber, there is only so much high end hair on a badger.
In my collection I have 1 horse that has gotten better over the years (years!! So they do "break in" to some degree.) a number of boars, synthetics and badgers. I've had my share of crappy synthetics that sprayed water and soap everywhere and were passed on to others, but the latest synthetics are truly great brushes. They are different, but great once one knows how to use them. They can't really be compared to any type of brush and within that category there are some that are truly unique. If I had to travel my travel brush would definitely be synthetic, no doubt about it and for the reasons already stated.
I have no idea what's available today because like my razors and blades, a brush just can't get better than what I presently own so I stopped buying in the search for shave nirvana. If I was to suggest a brush to a noob today I would suggest a boar if money was tight and with the understanding of natural fiber shortcomings, Omega makes a fantastic boar brush for the money; or a synthetic if it has a synthetic handle. You don't want a wooden handle on synthetic fibers; that just makes absolutely no sense.
But in synthetic the only way to know what one is getting is to get on a shave forum to focus in, or just pay the $ and take pot luck since the fibers can be so very different. I almost sent away my Plisson unused due to how different it was. But it's a really great brush.
BTW, I haven't bought a brush in years so maybe they have gotten better, but I can't imagine brushes any better than what I use. Different doesn't mean better, just different. I have no more room in my shave cabinet, hence my stopping when I achieved my personal shave nirvana.
I suspect if I haven't voted, or have, I would vote for synthetic. But I like them all.
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Post by birdlives on Dec 23, 2017 19:21:24 GMT -6
I may have written this before, if so please forgive me. I have a modest collection of 30 some odd brushes and they all do a superlative job lathering. But the base fibers work differently. The reason for high end brushes is the hand work that goes into them. Not just anyone can make a good handmade brush. Too, if it's natural fiber, there is only so much high end hair on a badger. In my collection I have 1 horse that has gotten better over the years (years!! So they do "break in" to some degree.) a number of boars, synthetics and badgers. I've had my share of crappy synthetics that sprayed water and soap everywhere and were passed on to others, but the latest synthetics are truly great brushes. They are different, but great once one knows how to use them. They can't really be compared to any type of brush and within that category there are some that are truly unique. If I had to travel my travel brush would definitely be synthetic, no doubt about it and for the reasons already stated. I have no idea what's available today because like my razors and blades, a brush just can't get batter than what I presently own so I stopped buying in the search for shave nirvana. If I was to suggest a brush to a noob today I would suggest a boar if money was tight and with the understanding of natural fiber shortcomings, Omega makes a fantastic boar brush for the money, or a synthetic if it has a synthetic handle. You don't want a wooden handle on synthetic fibers; that just makes absolutely no sense. But in synthetic the only way to know what one is getting is to get on a shave forum to focus in, or just pay the $ and take pot luck since the fibers can be so very different. I almost sent away my Plisson unused due to how different it was. But it's a really great brush. BTW, I haven't bought a brush in years so maybe they have gotten better, but I can't imagine brushes any better than what I use. Different doesn't mean better, just different. I have no more room in my shave cabinet, hence my stopping when I achieved my personal shave nirvana. I suspect if I haven't voted, or have, I would vote for synthetic. But I like them all. That does....I'm using my synthetic tonight....Alan gave me a beautiful new Parker Synthetic that I haven't given a fair test because of my always reaching for my "Horse".....I'll be back!!
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Post by wchnu on Dec 23, 2017 19:39:36 GMT -6
I may have written this before, if so please forgive me. I have a modest collection of 30 some odd brushes and they all do a superlative job lathering. But the base fibers work differently. The reason for high end brushes is the hand work that goes into them. Not just anyone can make a good handmade brush. Too, if it's natural fiber, there is only so much high end hair on a badger. In my collection I have 1 horse that has gotten better over the years (years!! So they do "break in" to some degree.) a number of boars, synthetics and badgers. I've had my share of crappy synthetics that sprayed water and soap everywhere and were passed on to others, but the latest synthetics are truly great brushes. They are different, but great once one knows how to use them. They can't really be compared to any type of brush and within that category there are some that are truly unique. If I had to travel my travel brush would definitely be synthetic, no doubt about it and for the reasons already stated. I have no idea what's available today because like my razors and blades, a brush just can't get batter than what I presently own so I stopped buying in the search for shave nirvana. If I was to suggest a brush to a noob today I would suggest a boar if money was tight and with the understanding of natural fiber shortcomings, Omega makes a fantastic boar brush for the money, or a synthetic if it has a synthetic handle. You don't want a wooden handle on synthetic fibers; that just makes absolutely no sense. But in synthetic the only way to know what one is getting is to get on a shave forum to focus in, or just pay the $ and take pot luck since the fibers can be so very different. I almost sent away my Plisson unused due to how different it was. But it's a really great brush. BTW, I haven't bought a brush in years so maybe they have gotten better, but I can't imagine brushes any better than what I use. Different doesn't mean better, just different. I have no more room in my shave cabinet, hence my stopping when I achieved my personal shave nirvana. I suspect if I haven't voted, or have, I would vote for synthetic. But I like them all. Very well put! I will say I do not care to spend money on a high end brush because I can not see my lather getting better. I may have written this before, if so please forgive me. I have a modest collection of 30 some odd brushes and they all do a superlative job lathering. But the base fibers work differently. The reason for high end brushes is the hand work that goes into them. Not just anyone can make a good handmade brush. Too, if it's natural fiber, there is only so much high end hair on a badger. In my collection I have 1 horse that has gotten better over the years (years!! So they do "break in" to some degree.) a number of boars, synthetics and badgers. I've had my share of crappy synthetics that sprayed water and soap everywhere and were passed on to others, but the latest synthetics are truly great brushes. They are different, but great once one knows how to use them. They can't really be compared to any type of brush and within that category there are some that are truly unique. If I had to travel my travel brush would definitely be synthetic, no doubt about it and for the reasons already stated. I have no idea what's available today because like my razors and blades, a brush just can't get batter than what I presently own so I stopped buying in the search for shave nirvana. If I was to suggest a brush to a noob today I would suggest a boar if money was tight and with the understanding of natural fiber shortcomings, Omega makes a fantastic boar brush for the money, or a synthetic if it has a synthetic handle. You don't want a wooden handle on synthetic fibers; that just makes absolutely no sense. But in synthetic the only way to know what one is getting is to get on a shave forum to focus in, or just pay the $ and take pot luck since the fibers can be so very different. I almost sent away my Plisson unused due to how different it was. But it's a really great brush. BTW, I haven't bought a brush in years so maybe they have gotten better, but I can't imagine brushes any better than what I use. Different doesn't mean better, just different. I have no more room in my shave cabinet, hence my stopping when I achieved my personal shave nirvana. I suspect if I haven't voted, or have, I would vote for synthetic. But I like them all. That does....I'm using my synthetic tonight....Alan gave me a beautiful new Parker Synthetic that I haven't given a fair test because of my always reaching for my "Horse".....I'll be back!! You might like it. I have 3. Love two of them. The Ace on the JR 137 is not as good. One day I will change it out for something.
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TobyC
Gem Star
Old stick in the mud.
Posts: 2,400
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Post by TobyC on Dec 23, 2017 22:06:34 GMT -6
It most likely is. As I said, a modern synthetic will yield similar results for a fraction of the cost. Take the travel brush in my avatar. It cost roughly US$250. Do I actively use it? I do not anymore, not since I found a synthetic that yielded comparable performance. Because I can stuff a damp synthetic into my bag, and forget about it. A damp natural fibre would rot very fast, though. Actually, there is. It is called " cost of labour". High-end brushes are hand-made in Europe, which means they are much more expensive than brushes made in China. Additionally, they are typically made using select grade badger hairs which also drives up the cost. To take a concrete example, Thäter brushes are not cut into shape. Instead, the hairs are bound in a way that will retain the tips of the badger hairs. Also, they do not use bleached hairs, so each hair has to be aligned in a way that will result in uniform bands. That takes a lot of time (which, as can be seen above, costs a lot of money). So when it comes to badger brushes, let us not compare apples and oranges. I have tried a few Chinese brushes, and knots. None of them come anywhere close to what you get from Thäter, Shavemac, or Rooney. But... does that affect their actual performance (and not just aesthetics and feel)? It does not, really. Certainly not to an extent that would justify the markup one pays compared to a synthetic brush. So, performance-wise, nothing beats a modern synthetic, especially if you factor in the price-performance ratio. But... does that mean you should bin your favourite brushes? Absolutely not. If you are happy with a boar, or badger, or horse brush - great! You are obviously subjectively happy, and that is how things should be. However, objectively you are getting less performance than you deserve. So, if you have not tried a modern synthetic, you probably should. I am going to travel with a synthetic for the first time Monday. Should be easy. I will be driving so plenty of room for my travel kit. Perhaps my post was confusing, what I mean is; I can't justify me spending that much for any shave brush. I am very happy with the two band badger and the black and white synthetic knots that I've gotten from Maggard, and the boar knots from The Golden nib.
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Post by wchnu on Dec 23, 2017 22:08:11 GMT -6
I am going to travel with a synthetic for the first time Monday. Should be easy. I will be driving so plenty of room for my travel kit. Perhaps my post was confusing, what I mean is; I can't justify me spending that much for any shave brush. I am very happy with the two band badger and the black and white synthetic knots that I've gotten from Maggard, and the boar knots from The Golden nib. I agree! Like buying a truck that cost as much as a house. Nope!!
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TobyC
Gem Star
Old stick in the mud.
Posts: 2,400
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Post by TobyC on Dec 23, 2017 22:24:10 GMT -6
Perhaps my post was confusing, what I mean is; I can't justify me spending that much for any shave brush. I am very happy with the two band badger and the black and white synthetic knots that I've gotten from Maggard, and the boar knots from The Golden nib. I agree! Like buying a truck that cost as much as a house. Nope!! I quoted the wrong post, but it worked OK I guess, I'm not used to hitting "quote" at the top of a post. The smileys are crap!
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Post by wchnu on Dec 23, 2017 23:23:13 GMT -6
I agree! Like buying a truck that cost as much as a house. Nope!! I quoted the wrong post, but it worked OK I guess, I'm not used to hitting "quote" at the top of a post. The smileys are crap! That is probably cause the guy that runs this place is low tech. Lol
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TobyC
Gem Star
Old stick in the mud.
Posts: 2,400
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Post by TobyC on Dec 23, 2017 23:28:07 GMT -6
I quoted the wrong post, but it worked OK I guess, I'm not used to hitting "quote" at the top of a post. The smileys are crap! That is probably cause the guy that runs this place is low tech. Lol That's cool! Low-Tech is my middle name,... or is it Cave-Man,... I can't remember.
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Post by wchnu on Dec 23, 2017 23:30:36 GMT -6
That is probably cause the guy that runs this place is low tech. Lol That's cool! Low-Tech is my middle name,... or is it Cave-Man,... I can't remember. Lol. I know what you mean. I would love to drop my smart phone in a dumpster. But I guess gotta play the game at least a little.
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Dec 24, 2017 0:47:40 GMT -6
Perhaps my post was confusing, what I mean is; I can't justify me spending that much for any shave brush. I am very happy with the two band badger and the black and white synthetic knots that I've gotten from Maggard, and the boar knots from The Golden nib. You're quite right. But let's reframe this, shall we? Think of a brush as an offroad vehicle. A synthetic is a Defender: cheap, reliable, low maintenance, but it will get you anywhere you want to go. A boar or a horse is a Lada Niva: Ugly, somehow gets the job done, prone to damage. A Thäter/Shavemac/Rooney is a G-Class: expensive, reliable, gets you anywhere, so basically a glorified Defender with a massive markup because of all the manual labour that goes into its production. Chinese import brushes are Landwind X7s: Look like the good stuff, but are just cheap rip-offs prone to breaking and generally an embarrassment. There is something else, of course: Natural fibres are natural fibres. I do not see how a brush made today should differ from one made decades ago. Yes, I know: but the vintage High Mountain Whatevermarketing-BS They Came Up With brushes!!!1 Sorry to have to let you down, but European badger hair did not differ from Chinese badger hair, and if it ever did, decades of use would have eliminated whatever alleged differences there ever were. So, no, nothing new, except that the Chinese did to shaving brushes what they did to paint brushes and cosmetic brushes in the 20th century, ie flood the market with cheap products. Synthetic fibres, however, are under active development. When I first tested a synthetic brush about ten years ago, the performance was appaling. Now, I would not engage in a double blind test against even higher quality badger brushes. And that is not mentioning effectiveness, because the synthetics I use (Frank Shaving, because a friend visits China often and can get them for a fraction of the Western retail price) lather everything, no exceptions. And they do it faster and with less effort than any other brush type I have ever used. So, full disclosure, I drive a Range Rover. I really should have gone for a G-Class but it was out of my price range. In reality, however, I should have gone for a Defender, but the wife objected to its rustic interieur. Thankfully, she does not get a say in my shaving brush purchases
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ShadowsDad
Gem Star
None boring shaver!!
"It's not the bow, it's the Indian"
Posts: 4,534
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Post by ShadowsDad on Dec 24, 2017 1:27:06 GMT -6
I really wish someone would come up with a way to grade synthetic fibers, but I've never heard of one. But even if some such did exist how would it work? My quite excellent Simpson synthetics are SO different from the Plisson or Omega yet all 3 fiber types are just fantastic. Heck we don't have a grading system that works for Badger. Brush makers get away with using chemically treated hair and calling it Silvertip when in live use it was no such thing. But they buy the junk hair and make high priced brushes out of it for folks who haven't a clue. But some folks think that if they throw a lot of money at a brush it's made of quality hair rather than chemically treated junk.
FWIW, I have travel brushes made specifically for travel with tubes specifically designed for the job, in both natural fiber and synthetic, but all one really needs is a brush that will fit into a Rx bottle. I drill 1/2" holes top and bottom in the bottle and as long as the fibers aren't scrunched down or in other ways hurt that form of transport is fine. Nor does it need to be made commercially. I made a syn' travel brush specifically to fit in a Rx bottle with a custom handle and a Golden Nib knot. It works fine and is a one off.
Having written that I rarely travel anymore and at this time almost never travel out of state. I haven't been out of Maine in decades. Yet I have travel brushes. In the past I've written that I'm not a collector, maybe I am. But my travel brushes are actually used when at home, but they are capable of travel.
So many brushes, so little time and space.
I'm down on a number of manufacturers who buy substandard badger fibers that are chemically treated to make them into something that they weren't in life. They can be spotted if the manufacturer has brushes that are all the same. Natural fiber just isn't all the same and manufacturers using the real hair will have variations in brushes made with "the same hair". There's only so much hair of a given grade on a badger. But chemically treating low grade hair to turn it into another grade is rampant in the industry. Heck, if I can buy something at a low price and con folks into thinking it's something of much higher value I can pocket huge profit; anyone can, but it's a con. Many big names in brushes do that. But again, they can be spotted by uniform fibers, nature isn't like that. Nature has variations on a theme. That's yet another reason why I like synthetic. The con is gone. Everyone knows that synthetic is man made.
Pig hair is like that as well, no con involved and todays Omega brushes are pre broken in, or they were. I haven't bought one in years but I doubt that Omega went backwards.
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RobinK
Lather Catcher
Posts: 505
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Post by RobinK on Dec 24, 2017 1:53:49 GMT -6
[1] I really wish someone would come up with a way to grade synthetic fibers, but I've never heard of one.[...] [2] I'm down on a number of manufacturers who buy substandard badger fibers that are chemically treated to make them into something that they weren't in life. True, Brian, very true. [ad 1] As far as synthetics are concerned, this should be fairly straightforward: diameter, length, "backbone", water retention ability - done. The rest, such as softness, is mostly subjective, anyhow. [ad 2] As far as rip-off badger brushes are concerned, you are quite right. Fact: Chinese and European brush makers use the same sources for badger hair. Barring a trade cartel in China, they will be paying similar prices (plus shipping to Europe, but that has become a negligible quantity, too). Handles cost basically nothing, so that is not an issue either. What remains is the cost of labour - and quality of badger hairs. The cost of labour is, naturally, a lot cheaper in China than in Europe. And binding a knot is not exactly rocket science. But the salient bit is the use of cheap black badger that has been bleached. This is where the really high profit margins lie. Which is why I would never buy a Chinese knot and expect, with 100% certainty, to get what I paid for. I would buy from Rooney, Shavemac, or Thäter with confidence, though. That said, again, I would not buy an expensive badger brush anymore these days. Unless you really must have a luxury item, their performance simply does not justify the price. Which does not mean I do not love mine, but they are a luxury, not a necessity.
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Post by birdlives on Dec 25, 2017 21:31:02 GMT -6
That does....I'm using my synthetic tonight....Alan gave me a beautiful new Parker Synthetic that I haven't given a fair test because of my always reaching for my "Horse".....I'll be back!! You might like it. I have 3. Love two of them. The Ace on the JR 137 is not as good. One day I will change it out for something. Well I never got back to report....I had a regular Olympic Heavy Weight Boxing Championship between my Parker synthetic and my Vie-Long Cachurro horse.... The Parker is beautiful and had surprising backbone and bounce....But to make a long story short... The Cachurro Horse kicked the Synth clean out of the Shave Cave, if not off the Planet! I could go into details on each aspect...But sufice it to say...This Horse that Fuzzy laid on me is a Gold Metal Winner by a Knock-Out! Just can't hide a great performance! The Parker, Alan gave me, and is very special to me. I plan on keeping it, and digging it from time to time...It is a good performer...Made great lather in short order...and dried out in minutes...But as good as it was, it still couldn't begin to make me change my vote from "Horse". This Vie-Lone is Smokin'!! And feels better on my skin than any brush I own!
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